salman taseer gunned down.

oh, and btw, because mumtaz was a policeman - the commissioner of police should apologize.

going one step further, because mumtaz was a government employee, the highest government official - probably the governor - should apologize for the killing. in which case, salmaan taseer who was the governor at that time should apologize.

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and should the president apologize because mumtaz was a pakistani?

 

this open letter to mawlana ilyas qadri is silly.

the least i can say of those signatories is, that they are ignorant, pompous and stupid. and whoever composed that pathetic piece of junk needs to get an education. i assume they are following the example of open letters written to obama and bush - but note, that in those cases, obama and bush are decision makers who are squarely responsible for murders of hundreds or thousands of innocent people across the world.

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this is even more stupid than the rest of the rambling. as far as salman taseer is considered, he was a fasiq outright and his views have been bordering kufr (read the twitter posts). the reason why we hesitate in takfir is out of our responsibility, not because we have any respect for a do-takey ka politician like taseer.

for one with an english mother, he cannot even write proper english! incompetent, corrupt, self-serving politician - who is now lionized simply because of a poor choice made by a muslim with conscience.

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in defence of mumtaz qadri, what he did was wrong, and he might have been mistaken in his action; but his intention was to uphold the honor of the messenger sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. that he did not investigate whether it was right, and did not do due diligence is another issue - his intention was surely not to play for the gallery like most politicians and these bleeding-heart liberals do. [read taseer's oh-so-pompous-last-man-standing boast]

we are muslims. we are proud of our laws and we are not afraid (nor do we care) of being ridiculed by shameless, drinking, philandering commentators (i speak of the general liberalist ilk, not those in this bakwas letter).

muslims should not even spit on these hypocritical protests which are a regrettable example of intellectual slavery decorated with phenomenal ignorance.

-----
ek kameena politician - one of the many who have ravaged the country and are continuously enriching themselves - agar kisi dil jaley ne maar diya to itna shor? aur hazaaroN ghareeb musalman kabhi iqtidaar ke jootey tale, kabhi maghribi mulkoN ke nakhre uthane ko, kabhi mahz apne zaati mafaad aur dunya parasti ki hawas meiN, roz maarey jayeN - in nahinjaroN ki ghayrat nahiN jaagti?

-----
did salman taseer apologize for the murders in pakistan on his watch? or the president, who is the shame of pakistan? read wikileaks cables and weep for the lack of any ethics among these politicians, and then reevaluate your misplaced 'anger'. these are run-down rogues and criminals who have gained respectability. any self-respecting muslim will not allow his clothes to be touched by such despicable filth.

dawat e islami and mawlana ilyas qadri are not responsible for the act of an individual and anyone who demands an apology is either a dum-chala of corrupt politicians, or a person without a mind of his own, or raving mad.

choose your pick.

laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

 

http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamWarWithinIslam_1.aspx?ArticleID=3916

 

Listened to all 23 minutes and looks like Shah Sahib is saying that the defendant should be quizzed and questioned and given a chance to explain his stance infront of the court. individuals acting by taking laws into their own hands is wrong.

Taking someone's life is something very serious as Allah swt says in Quran.
' except with the right to do so ' the verses are numerous.

There is no doubt that Pakistan is a Ribawi country and it is not a shariah based country.

 

There we have it!

It is crystal clear that Taseer knew that this woman spoke words against prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam).

But why he wanted her to be pardoned?

He himself answers it !

He says

Ignorance is not a bliss.

Also note ,".liberal modern minded,president..poor woman"

note" blasphemy law triggers extremism..an Unfortunate left over of a military regime"
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Its all media! Trust me . All of it.. they took the picture of lady along with her kids to get sympathy and another pic which shows her "innocent"look.

All those who have done multi media course know how to chose which picture to get what type of public response.

Muslims are no fool.

---
Now I have to take long break from forum due to my exams. So this was last post until I am back, Insha Allah.

 

Taseer interview on CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX4bQbSuZTc

 

The english pakistani media has started calling scholars as 'fanatics" and Taseer and his supporter as " liberals".

So as a long term policy, the first step will be to slowly eradicate urdu and widen english readership.

A humble suggetsion: Once in a while we should read urdu blogspots as well , to see some thing which is not shown in english media.

 

Pir Syed Irfan Shah - Pakistan's Blasphemy Law and Salman Taseer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyqArF697PQ

 

So now it is my turn to ask, please provide documentary evidence to show how it has been abused or misused. Please , note I am asking for official rulings not what a mob does. Because many a time mob does something which is not valid and they do so irrespective of the law. Sahriah does not allow a woman to marry a copy of the qur'an but people are doing it. Tomorrow if a law is passed banning this act , and some one still does it , then it will not be called correct. So if mob has done some act it does not mean the law is wrong. I need evidence to show how the law has been misused in the court of law.


And the evidence should full fill all the criteria which the shariah demands to full fill, that is if we are talking about "purely" islamic state. Dhadi mundas, sharabkhors, and others who commit fisq, their testimony will not be accepted.If we are not talking about Islamic state, then we leave this out, then we have the law of the land.

 

The law which states that any disrespect to prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) is Kufr is based from direct Qur'anic ayats. That is why there is a consensus on it.

A person can become kafir by speaking or doing different actions. Shariah does not prescribe death punishment to every Kafir. But one who becomes a murtad by becoming a gustakh of rasul allah ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam), the death punishment is for them.

Now trying to get an existing law , a law which is based from Qura'n, banned or calling it as a "black law" ( this is the word of disrespect and not of praise )and some one else not considering this attempt ( to get the law banned) as a blasphemy is another topic. May be some one will ask a Mufti to now issue a Fatwa on this.

 

Insha Allah I will reply in detail later, but for those who need evidence on internet should stop asking it, because at one place we have 500+scholars who have approved it. That is sufficient for a layman . Those 500+ scholars have said this in a written testimony that it was a correct act and we are reading Taseer's tweeter blog to defend him? Why not trust those scholars who met him in real and spoke to him real? Those who need further proof I can give phone numbers of top scholars who can be contacted and they know what was Taseer's kufr. Also, why not call some people and scan the FIR report in which the lady herself accepted her kufriya words?

Taseer was defending those kufriya words. This is kufr initself. There is no taweel of it.The famous 99 symptoms rule which is often quoted is for those case in which Kufr is not clear. Allama Saeed Kazmi (rd) has explained this point in the link which I have posted earlier.

Taseer was supporting the statements of that lady.This is different from opposing the law. The magistarte of the lower court of pakistan is a qualified judge who passes different exams and promotions to become a Judge. He gave that ruling.

If Taseer was so confident that the lady was"innocent" then he should have waited for the High court Judgment. Why did he start mobilising people against the law itlself?

If he was against this law, then why did he not move a resolution to remove this law, before this lady uttered those words? Why did he start opposing this law only when the lady accepted her words and the court passed the ruling? Do we still need more evidence to show that he was supporting the statements spoken by this woman and also was against the law itself.

The responsibility is upon those who think it was a wrong act to prove it. Because 500+ scholars have said it is correct. This is the ruling of Jamaah, which we are , that is ahlus sunnah wal jamah. For a layman it is sufficient evidence. And I doubt people even bothered to call Muftis in Pakistan to know their view.

It is not anybody's responsibility to present evidence on internet, when 500+ sunni scholars have approved it.They don't read tweeter blogs to form view.

If a military court in Pakistan upholds an act done by a soldier , the court is not responsible to give those evidence to normal public, forget the inetrent sources.
What if it is said , ( for the sake of argument) that Taseer was in very close terms with India and India was trying to get this law banned and was using Taseer as a tool. Then we will have next question: Get the evidence that taseer had relationship with India and after getting the evidence it should also be uploaded on internet for our satisfaction.

It is simple as 2+2=4. Taseer was supporting those statements which that lady spoke , that is why he was not only fighting for that lady but also trying to get the law banned. He was a smart murtad who was trying to hot two birds with one stone. He knew getting the law banned is not so easy, but lady will be saved , as government will find it hard to oppose both the things.

Starge things is we need to look at the political angle also. Many a times things are not as simple as they appear.

 

p.s. I dont care about Deobandi/Wahabi ulema and their views or of their supporters who have jumped onto the bandwagon to defend Salman.

 

Can we not accept the words of the ulama and assume that scrupolous people like Hazrat Allama Shah Turab al Haq would NOT have declared it lawful to kill Salman and declared it impermissible to read his janazah if they had the slightest doubt about him and without seeing the proof? In other words, as you implied, they must have seen the proof.
Indeed Syed Muzaffar Shah said as much when he mentioned the FIR and how the media were not showing it.

 

sunnistudent says:

abu hasan replies to it:

how can disrespect of the shari3ah not be blasphemy in itself?

wanting to get the law abrogated ALONG with calling it a black law ALONG with saying the woman (whose uttering of the words is proven) wouldn't have been charged had the law not been in place, would constitute patent disrespect of the specific law regarding shatim ar-rasool/shari3ah, would it not?

as far as i know, disrespecting a scholar itself can constitute blasphemy because that implies disrespect to shari3ah, unless one says "such and such scholar is not truly a scholar" or something like "the scholars of our times are wrong/dunya seekers" or "the scholars of such and such country are corrupt".

btw, he did lash out at "these illiterate mullahs/maulvis" too AND as far as i know, he was adamant not to seek to discuss the issue with scholars of any sect/leaning. would this be constituted as a blanket disrespect of muslim scholars/scholarship?

my disclaimer: this is a query to those who know better than me.

 

This might clear some doubts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivi_Ki73ohE

Salman Taseer says that the blasphemy law is abused and misused. I think this is what he was against. Misuse and abuse for personal benefits. Allahu Alam. Like Abu Hasan said, give excuses and have husn al-dhann.

One may not agree with Salman Taseer's actions or beliefs but this doesn't give anyone the right to be judge, jury, prosecutor and the executioner.

Islam is the religion of ADL / justice. To start with: is Pakistan an Islamic Shariah based country ? what laws do they have ? Islamic Shariah Laws or man-made laws ?

Start with the basics first.

 

i think either my point is either not properly understood, or is ignored.

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my question is about a principle: is there any solid proof that taseer committed blasphemy and is therefore liable to be executed? please do not give me his history or whether he was corrupt and deserved it, etc. etc.

whether he committed blasphemy himself, and did he defend blasphemous statements? (brother ibn ajibah has already raised these points earlier).

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i am sorry to say this but the above paragraph is nothing but ta'wil. another disclaimer in these sad times: i neither support a blasphemer nor condone such vile things and i believe in the ijma'a that anyone who utters a small word of disrespect towards the blessed messenger sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is a kafir.

in the above paragraph 'supported this woman, her words,' is a grave charge. if he has supported her words, then indeed there is no scope for further argument. but the moot point is, 'where?' (in a twitter post, taseer himself asks this question).

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again, where? it is reported that he said it was a black law, but did anyone clarify whether he meant implementation of the law in pakistan or the shariah itself? don't bite my head off, the shariah asks us to see if there is any avenue to excuse him before damning him without any hesitation.

this is another issue - and i don't think this is blasphemy in itself.

i cannot see how this is a direct disrespect to the prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. maybe, i am missing out on something - please enlighten me.

wAllahu a'alam.

PS: once again, if the ulama have already seen the proof and declared it, then we will follow them. the responsibility is then that of those ulama.

 

The person who openly said the blasphemous words is a non muslim woman. She has admitted that she has said these words. The lower court has also passed the ruling that these words are blasphemous.

Taseer was a male Muslim on record. He supported this woman , her words, openly and then started making fun of this law. He said that if this law was not there , the woman would not have been charged. That is why Taseer was not only supporting this woman but was trying to get this law banned. Hence a direct disrespect to prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) and an indirect disrespect to Qur'an and the Law of AllaH , because this ruling is taken directly from Quran'ic verses.

We have heard Syed Sahab in speech saying that he has seen the FIR and most important that non muslim woman admitted that she said those words. He also said media is simply hiding that the woman admitted this.Of course , he is not the only man to have the copy of FIR. Many people have it.

The team of scholars met Taseer personally and told him that he is supporting a wrong individual and he should not call this law as "black law" and other words of nasiha.

The scholars not only personally stayed away from funeral and mourning, but also asked publicly to do so.

The scholars are more fearful about the other fitna and that is normal public calling each other" kafir" on every matter! Hence the ruling to stay away from funeral and mourning is a clear ruling that Taseer was murtad and not publically using the word 'kafir" is a preventive step for the other act, that would be calling " kafir kafir" to each other.

And the most important thing: Ghazi Mumtaz was the body guard of Taseer. He heard all his speeches, watched all his activities and knew very well what Taseer was upto.Jo usnay kiya sahi kiya.

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And I totally agree with brother aH that no individual should take law in his hand. He should file the case to the court of law, to the Qadi of the shariah and should not start acting irresponsibly, as it will create fitna , which is worse than the murder as stated in Qur'an.
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As an after effect, in Pakistan they are now removing all beard supporting body guards of top leaders , as they fear that supporting beard is a sign of "extrmism".

Isn't it a shame ? Have we seen any "sikh" being called extremist because he supports beard , as it is a command in their religion as well.?

 

When I think of this whole matter about Salman Maluun and Ghazi Mumtaz Qadri I am reminded of this verse of Allama Iqbal's:

Bay-khatr kood paRa aatish-e-Nimrood mein ishq
Aql hai, mahv-e-tamaasha, lab e baam abhi!
Fearless, Love jumped into the fire of Nimrod!
Meanwhile, Intellect watches the commotion from afar!

Exactly the same situation as happened with Ghazi Ilm ud Deen Shaheed is happening now except that then the blasphemer was a Hindu and now it is a so-called muslim. The verse applied to both situations.

 

Sidi Abu Hasan,

Bhai jaan, I am quite surprised by your stance. I suggest that your questions, though indeed valid, need to be asked to the ulama of Ahle Sunnat in Pakistan who made the ruling since your tone suggests you think they did not make the correct ruling.

We are Traditionalists who follow our trustworthy ulama. If we only follow them when it suits us or when it agrees with our own understanding (and I know it may sound rich coming from me) this leads to chaos and YN like behaviour. The only exception would be if we were higher scholars than the likes of Shah Turab al Haq Sahib--then we could disagree validly.

 

I agree with Sunnistudent and AQ on this on the basis that senior and reliable scholars of the calibre of Shah Turab al Haq Sahib (+ 500 others!) declared
Salman mal'oon a murtad before he was executed by Ghazi Mumtaz Qadri. Shah sahib says they even offered to talk to him and explain the matter from an islamic POV since it was so delicate. The timeline of events he explains in his talk is very important and the media in Pakistan is presenting a very one-sided view as it is controlled by the so-called liberals who ape the West in all things.

We must trust our ulama. We are not talking about low level village maulanas but the top Sunni ulama in Pakistan who are united on this issue. I am sure they would have withheld their verdicts if their had been doubt. As Syed Muzaffar Shah sahib says the FIR report contains unrepeatable filthy language against our Master صلى الله عليه وسلم and Salman was defending her right to say it after knowing what was in the report.

I think the reason the media are not bringing forth the FIR is it will make it impossible for anyone to deny Salman's apostasy and the media is run mostly by people with similar views.