atabeck the donkey rejects another hadith from bukhari

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by abu Hasan, May 9, 2016.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what will the response when the stupidity of atabek the big donkey is caught out? his little donkeys will:

    "So the evasions, misdirections, fudges and outright lies begin."
     
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    not even imam abu yusuf and imam muhammad al-shaybani.
    no abdullah ibn mubarak.
    no zufar.
    not dawud al-Tayi
    not wakiy ibn al-jarraH (among teachers of imam shafiyi)
    not HafS ibn ghiyath
    not yaHya ibn zakariyyah (ibn maymun)
    no Hasan ibn ziyad.
    not Hammad ibn abi Hanifah (atabek i have heard accuses him to be a mutazili)

    and scores of scholars from makkah, madinah, kufa, baSrah, baghdad, waSiT mosul, egypt, etc.

    -----
    imam azam passed away in 150 AH.

    imam abu manSur maturidi passed away in 333 AH.
    [it is estimated that he must have been born prior to 248 AH - as muhammad ibn muqatil al-razi, known to be one of his shaykhs passed away in 248 AH. at the least imam maturidi would be 6 years, to claim him as his shaykh which means around 242 AH. so at the time of his passing, imam maturidi would be 91 years of age, which is plausible. Allah knows best.]

    ----
    according to atabek's, "Hanafi uSul":

    - the opinion of imamayn means: either the opinion of abu Hanifah or imam abu manSur maturidi.

    - the opinion of Tarafayn means: either the opinion of abu Hanifah or imam abu manSur maturidi

    - the opinion of SaHibayn means: the opinion of imam abu manSur maturidi AND/OR one of the two: imam abu yusuf and imam muHammad.

    ---
    this is the level of ignorance of the donkey - but he keep braying.
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    atabek is a donkey. he is even acting like a monkey now - jumping from one branch to another hanging by his tail.

    ----
    sub'HanAllah!

    imam maturidi's tafsir nowhere rejects the hadith - it is atabek's own interpretation.
    sub'HanAllah, atabek is a BIG liar - muftari kazzab. all of these claims below are atabek's own flights of fancy. nowhere did imam maturidi say all this. the muftari is accusing imam maturidi of all these things. i challenge him to produce proof for his claims that:

    1. maturidi did not look at its chain of narrators

    2. doesn't even look at which collection is it narrated in

    3. doesn't consider that it is in the collection of bukhari

    4. neither does he try to show his excuses to bukhari
    the proof should be from explicit statements that imam maturidi rejected the hadith bukhari in those words. interpretation of later donkeys doesn't count.

    about this particular passage:

    1. i reject that it is imam maturidi's opinion. it was inserted by someone like atabek.

    2. it is easier to reject a passage which is not verified, not transmitted across generations and authentically known to be maturidi's opinion. if not, give us an uninterrupted chain of transmission for this tafsir - word to word and particularly these words to be imam maturidi's own.
    And YOU! dear muslim. ponder!
    you.jpg
    as for the hadith cited:

    1. it is marfu'u qawli hadith of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi was sallam

    2. it is a rigorously authenticated - SaHiH narration - found in bukhari and muslim both: #3404 in bukhari; #1842 in muslim;

    3. additionally, it is found in musnad imam aHmad and tirmidhi.

    4. this is the explanation ta'wil of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam himself!
    would you reject it based on a statement purported to be that of a scholar of later times (imam maturidi passed away in 333 AH). compare this with the above:

    1. [purported to be a] statement of a scholar of the 4th century.

    2. there is no rigorously authenticated chain that it is HIS statement.

    3. -----

    4. this is the opinion of a scholar of the 4th century.​

    compare the above and tell me which do you think is safer to reject? this [spurious attribution] to imam maturidi or a SaHiH hadith of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam found in bukhari, muslim, imam ahmad?

    ----
    EVEN if you find undeniable material proof that imam maturidi INDEED said it - STILL, you can reject it safely without incurring any fatwa.

    however, you cannot reject a SaHiH hadith of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam based on your own understanding - you risk becoming a kafir and will INDEED become one if it is proven that it is INDEED the statement of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    is tafsir maturidi MUTAWATIR? is every word in that authenticated by dozens of ulama who are thiqat? please produce a chain of narration that authenticates those very words to be indeed said by imam maturidi.

    ----
    atabek is spinning it backwards. instead of using bukhari and muslim as THE standard and attempting to reconcile other texts and opinions to the hadith in bukhari; he is using a [quite possibly] spurious statement in a book of tafsir attributed to imam maturidi as THE standard and is willing to reject bukhari and muslim, if they are inconsistent with this book.

    in other words, atabek considers "tafsir maturidi" to be next only to the qur'an - and he will accept every word in it as he accepts the words of the qur'an; and he will reject SaHiH musnad marfu'u Hadith of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam - even a mutawatir hadith - if it conflicts with "tafsir maturidi". this is atabek's standard!

    for the sake of argument, i say: what is the ruling concerning the person who refuses to believe that this tafsir was authored by imam maturidi?

    REMEMBER - the hadith in bukhari and muslim are seen, read, transmitted, reviewed, repeated by millions of muslims worldwide. no other book in islamic history [after the qur'an] has been granted that level of mass-acceptance. the braying of donkeys like atabek won't damage their reputation a bit.

    ----
    atabek is a donkey who doesn't even know the meaning of wijadah.

    even a wijadah attributed to RasulALlah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam cannot be used to reject a SaHiH musnad narration - atabek wants to use a wijadah attributed to imam maturidi to reject a SaHiH musnad marfu'u narration!

    ya Allah!
     
    sunni_92, Umar99, Ghulam Ali and 4 others like this.
  5. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

  6. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Somebody wrote on facebook regarding this:

    "This is why Atabek is a jew kind of scholar, he purposely left out all the blasphemic parts, the open and sareeh kufr and refused to refute his idiotic student who in general sense promoted it to the ignorant.

    The kufr this study quran beholds are so severe and open which none have done before in this extent, and to promote it as avicenna did is a open and clear invitation towards kufr and dalal.

    Where the holy Prophet ordered to abstain from Kufr and dalal, these people tell them go ahead and read these books, it is all ok! The ones actually warning you from kufr are biased.

    Atabek knew he cant hide the error avicenna student made, so he chose to talk about igtilaf in details which are just mere furu and dont affect iman, they are not usuli. Almost his whole article concerns this, and leaves out the great Kufr and Dalal this book actually contains which was promoted by avicenna in general sense towards people who cant distiguish iman from kufr. Not to mention how scholars were branded by them as extremist as biased only because they pointed out of the dangers to iman in it.

    A clear sign of a corrupt scholar. Avicenna teachers are a danger to iman and they boast openly about it and are proud of it (academia). The idiocy....!"
     
    Unbeknown and Sartaj Al Shafii like this.
  7. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

  8. Adam Yahya

    Adam Yahya Active Member

    Deleted: wrong topic area.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  9. Sartaj Al Shafii

    Sartaj Al Shafii New Member

    Friends Of Atabek Are Showing They Are Aualified And Others Are Ilitrate But We Know He Misleading The PEOPLES UPON FACEBOOK
     
  10. CHISHTI

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    .."wahabis look more acceptable to atabek and co who claim to be sunni/maturidi/hanafi but are worse than wahabis/salafis. where the wahabi/salafi stops at saHiH hadith, atabek won't accept even that when it conflicts with his ideas.

    this sunni/maturidi/hanafi tag is only as a bait to lure ignorant muslims"


    ..very true..they are truly wolves in the garb of sheep..these people will inject you with poison and claim it's a vaccine against deviancy..they rely on the superficiality and ignorance of modern muslims and push their incompetence as guidance.

    The young muslims of uk are lucky to have Al Jamaat ul Muhammadiyya who focus on teaching authentic knowledge and avoid pir mania and dreams..they truly show the way of the orthodox Sunni ulema.
     
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  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    actually, wahabis look more acceptable to atabek and co who claim to be sunni/maturidi/hanafi but are worse than wahabis/salafis. where the wahabi/salafi stops at saHiH hadith, atabek won't accept even that when it conflicts with his ideas.

    this sunni/maturidi/hanafi tag is only as a bait to lure ignorant muslims.
     
    Umar99 and Aqdas like this.
  12. CHISHTI

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ..to be honest this type of thing terrifies me...Sunni orthodoxy is being attacked by people who align themselves with the ashari/maturidi schools, the four madhabs of fiqh and the different ways of tasawuff..I see no difference when atabeck et al insult the great ulema of the past and when the Wahhabis do the same..they both seek to dismantle the deen and make muslims unsure about what is correct...they muddy the waters sufficiently to either make one a full blown deviant or to totally demoralize a person so much that they leave deen altogether.
     
  13. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Not a surprise
     
  14. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

  15. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I think it's about time that a sunni mufti applies kufr on this idiot. The only way atabek can escape kufr is if he openly states that he did not post these messages.

    Another jahil on the payroll of his kafir masters (just like Padri and co).
     
    Harris786 likes this.
  16. sunni_92

    sunni_92 New Member

    I have ripped the article from the donkeys website as a PDF for future reference in case they deny any knowledge or say we didn't write such a thing.

    Donkeys are loyal; but this vile animal will lie to save his bray!

    We are living in complete fitnah..Abu Hasan we need you to write more and expose all this fitnah..our hearts are bleeding!!
     

    Attached Files:

    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the donkey thinks it is a lion. if the deluded donkey wants to take on a pride of lions, you know the result.

    of course, atabek the donkey thinks he can single handedly defeat a dozen male lions.

    the jahil is incapable of properly explaining the level of masayil in hanafi books - such a simple concept and he tried to show off his "hanafi" knowledge - it is so laughable. only ignoramuses worse than him will consider him an "authority".
     
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  18. CHISHTI

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ..mufaasireen not muhaditheen..apologies.
     
  19. CHISHTI

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ...so Ibn Abideen and Ala Hazrat abandoned the Hanafi school in favour of anti hanafi elements, also deviated from the pure maturidi understanding ..and the classical muhaditheen weren't sufficiently learned in the Arabic language and explained the Qur'an according to an agenda of theirs..whether it was sectarian, political or being biased towards hadeeth or by being a "muqallid mufaasir" !!

    This chap is dangerous..he views himself as being the only one who can articulate the true meaning of the Arabic language, the only hanafi alive who can revive the school and the flag bearer of the maturidi school who will clear the "heterodox" understanding and "errors" of former half baked hanafis!!

    I remember "shaykh(y)" rabi al madkhali, contemporary najdi salafi, saying to an adoring crowd of acolytes that "the dawah of ibn taymiyyah was lost for four hundred years until it was found by ibn Abdul wahhab"...meaning the muslims were wrong and a bunch of innovators for four hundred years until ibn wahhab came and saved us from our delusion and innovation....sounds like the schtick presented by our new "traditional" reformer.

    Apologies for double post..should've posted it here only.
     
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  20. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

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