A new interview with shaykh Abdul hakim murad

Discussion in 'Siyar an-Nubala' started by naqshbandijamaati, Aug 25, 2010.

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  1. @sidi suleiman:

    ishq e majazi = literally, metaphorical love (i.e. love between humans i.e. sensual love)
    ishq e Haqiqi = Real love i.e. love of the Real i.e. love between Man and Allah.

    Many Sufiyyah e karaam have written about how pure love of a creature can lead to love of the Divine.
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Akhi, I'm talking about universities that are controlled by the western interests and promote them (University of [x] or [x] University), not just exist in the geographic location but are run by Muslims.

    As an example, one sure fire way for a Muslim who is an academic in a western university to lose face is to just trash darwinism. Such people are always dictated by policy pressures and can't speak openly even if they are from the Ahlul Haqq. Anyone who thinks otherwise is extremely naive.

    What is meant to promote kufr and its interests can't promote Islam and its interests and vice versa.

    I didn't say mubtadi/fasiq/kafir. I just said "genuine scholar".

    By the same token, I don't consider a person who is closely associated/answers to politicians/power as a genuine, unbiased and dedicated scholar.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    actually, in the part on sama'a[listening to melody] in his iHya imam ghazali indicates that such words of poetry that incite or rouse haram passions must be avoided as the heart is quick to go a-flutter.

    remember the hadith of anjashah, if you will.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  4. This is the other extreme.
  5. Although I admire the shaykh for various reasons, I cringed at the story. So what if Desi scholars don't talk about naked beaches, alhamduliLlah they have a sense of haya'.

    What was more bizarre was asif's justification.

    Of all pursuits love is best
    Whether it is Sensuous (majaazi) or Sublime (haqiqi)

    When did majazi mean sensuous? Anyhow, the shaykh was not even talking about his love of whoever was on that beach!

    As a side story, why is it that so many so-called sufis in the west love quoting obscure passages from ibn arabi, al-hallaj and others, when we have the very clear, tried and tested, works of al-ghazali, ibn `ataiLlah, al-haddad, al-muhasibi, abu talib al-makki etc First put into practice the knowledge of the shari`ah which you know, and you will have states with Allah. Reading about states when you do not posess them is useless, and does not convey fully what the author means. Perhaps it is for this reason that al-ghazali often mentions that writing such things is haram.

  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I think it is the nature of the sad times we live in. Nothing will get taken seriously unless it involves some khutuwaatish shaytan and some sensationalizing.

    If you see the rags-to-riches stories of some "lifestyle coaches" you will see how almost all of them suddenly hit an epiphany regarding what they have been doing thus far and what they need to do to get to some place meaningful.

    I'm sure you would have read plenty in any random lifestyle magazine in the western world and know what I'm talking about.

    Hollow pretensions and playing by ear are what sell in our times, anything else and your "career" is doomed.

    It is a rarity to find a genuine scholar who isn't a "lifestyle coach" in the west, which is what most converted western scholars are.

    On what grounds do they say he is more influential than Ahmadinejad or Mahmoud Abbas? Most common people outside the west, which is the bulk majority of Muslims, are not even aware that these people exist.

    My personal formula - I just don't consider a person - who has a "degree" in "Islam" from any western university OR who lectures/chairs a department on "Islamic studies" in a western university - as a genuine scholar of Islam.
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    you brought up the mention of beaches and i replied in kind.

    AHM's colorful story was unnecessary at best. and IMHO, his statement that the girl 'converted' him to islam is stretching the fact considerably.

    as ks has pointed out, sufi-ulama have warned against the books of shaykh al-akbar - particularly those who don't have extensive knowledge of aqidah, fiqh, hadith and tafsir.

  8. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Reading Shaykh Muhiyy alDin in Arabic is problematic for untrained students never mind translations for laymen.
  9. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran


    Gai Eaton also talks about eroticism aswell. This is known as eroticism and not tasawwuf or anything else.

    T Winters also thinks Agha Khan has good contributions and has benefited spirituality.
  10. Perhaps this verse of the pious saintly poet Wali Deccani can explain?

    Shughal behtar hai ishq-baazi ka
    Kyaa Haqiqi o kyaa majaazii ka

    Of all pursuits love is best
    Whether it is Sensuous (majaazi) or Sublime (haqiqi)

    Shaykh al Akbar Ibn Arabi :ra: put it like this, see here:

    MOD: translation by bewley of fusus removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2010
  11. KS: bro i too agree about the accuracy of such "most influential" internet polls...

    btw what did he say about the Ismaili leader (I presume you mean the Agha Khan)?
  12. to be fair to AHM he was describing a scene when he was a teenage boy and had yet to convert to islam; i doubt if he would visit a beach now but i am sure he has visited many a beech ;-)

    he was probably explaining something which would make sense to a non Muslim reader (most readers of the Independent are prob. non Muslims middle class professionals) although it IS eminently possible that he was so touched by the beauty of the situation that it inspired him to seek out the Maker of such Beauty. I use a capital B here to denote the Platonic Ideal...

    Is this so different to the story of Hazrat Hafiz Shirazi's alleged conversion to the Path...

    (Though AH I am sure the writers of the piece phrased it so that the headline would be titillating!)
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    perhaps, because desi scholars don't visit beaches?

    frankly, i found his description of coming to islam embarrassing. i couldn't see anything in the incident (or describing it) other than the titillation factor. nor did i understand how peach juice influenced him; and even if it did, AHM stretches this considerably to give credit to someone else (which also looks good as a sensational headline).

    apparently, it struck him that there was more to life than this - one could as well blame the sand for it or the heat...but then, it won't be as colorful a description then.

    laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

    ... Well, I let go all holts then, like I was shot. It was the most astonishing speech I ever heard -- and I'm bound to say Tom Sawyer fell considerable in my estimation. Only I couldn't believe it.
  14. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Even though i think Timothy Winters is a nice man i don't think he is more influential than Pir Ala uddin even.

    Maybe you should check what Timothy Winters has to say about the Isma'ili leader.
  15. The Times has an excellent interview
    With Shaykh Abd al Hakim Murad aka Timothy Winter. See here

    Masha Allah ! May Allah preserve him.
    This interview highlights his popularity with British Sunnis as they can identify with him culturally and he them. I cannot imagine any desi scholar saying that he became interested in islam due to seeing a French girl on the beach with peach juice running down her chin? And his humility is endearing. Some of our alleged pirs couldearn a thing or two.

    And the icing is he is Sunni !

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