Age of Sayyidah A'ishah when she got married to our Beloved Prophet peace be upon him

Discussion in 'Seerat ar-Rasul' started by Lonely_Mountain, Nov 17, 2014.

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  1. Umar99

    Umar99 Well-Known Member

    Strange that Muftī Zāhid Hussain has contradicted the authentic Aĥadīth on this topic.

    حَدَّثَنِي عُبَيْدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ تُوُفِّيَتْ خَدِيجَةُ قَبْلَ مَخْرَجِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ بِثَلاَثِ سِنِينَ، فَلَبِثَ سَنَتَيْنِ أَوْ قَرِيبًا مِنْ ذَلِكَ، وَنَكَحَ عَائِشَةَ وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، ثُمَّ بَنَى بِهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ‏.‏

    صحيح البخاري, كتاب مناقب الأنصار, باب تَزْوِيجُ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَائِشَةَ وَقُدُومُهَا الْمَدِينَةَ وَبِنَاؤُهُ بِهَا

    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، وَأُدْخِلَتْ عَلَيْهِ وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ، وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا‏.

    كتاب النكاح, باب إِنْكَاحِ الرَّجُلِ وَلَدَهُ الصِّغَارَ, لِقَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: {وَاللاَّئِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ} فَجَعَلَ عِدَّتَهَا ثَلاَثَةَ أَشْهُرٍ قَبْلَ الْبُلُوغِ

    حَدَّثَنَا حَفْصُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، حَدَّثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ حَبِيبٍ الْقَاضِي، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ كُنْتُ أَلْعَبُ بِالْبَنَاتِ وَأَنَا عِنْدَ، رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَكَانَ يُسَرِّبُ إِلَىَّ صَوَاحِبَاتِي يُلاَعِبْنَنِي ‏.‏

    سنن ابن ماجه, كتاب النكاح

    وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سَبْعِ سِنِينَ وَزُفَّتْ إِلَيْهِ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ وَلُعَبُهَا مَعَهَا وَمَاتَ عَنْهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ ثَمَانَ عَشْرَةَ ‏‏

    صحيح مسلم, كتاب النكاح, باب تَزْوِيجِ الأَبِ الْبِكْرَ الصَّغِيرَةَ ‏
  2. Lonely_Mountain

    Lonely_Mountain Active Member

    Ah ofcourse, I understand what you mean now
    thank u
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yes. but for issues of such import, it is best to rely on hadith commentators. a lot has been researched by great ulama.

    learning through personal research, is not the same as presenting personal research without proper learning.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  5. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    AlHamdolillah I stick to what is excepted orthodoxy and if its an area that is not clear I asked the shuyukh/ulema that i have access to.
  6. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    personal (independent) research will land you in trouble; just like it does for ahle-hadeeth (ghair muqallid).

    you need a teacher, a guide: once you have mastered an acceptable level, you can study further.

    to be safe, stick to what has already been researched: our scholars (right from the time of the Sahabah), have collectively, already spent billions of man-hours doing that; they have left behind a legacy that many of us, in our entire lifetime, can not even read through.
    snaqshi likes this.
  7. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    When you research you learn at the same time goes hand in hand, but since you mention learning we are not all as fortunate as your brother when it come to learning the deen. Instead of making sly digs at people you should be thankful that Allah granted you his great Favour and Mercy that he granted to an excellent opportunity and level of Islamic study, that most people like me never get light of day.

    Since you made your comments towards me let me adress you with a small insight into my own experience of the deen and the state our Islamic scholarship through my eye (not that it will make you any more "humble" or "sincere").

    When my mother in rolled me at our local sunni "brailvi" madarsah, in the 5 years i was there we had between 20-30 (I forgot how many in total we would get a new one nearly every couple of month), not of them were bothered in teaching us anything even reading the qur'an correctly. My mums friend told here to send us to the deoband masjid since they had a great, high kevel of education and a very good syllabus, my mum told here that i would rather kill him (my son) first then send him to learn from a guustaakhi rasool.

    When I was mid way through secondary school I did not bother going to the mosque, sice in my eyes i was not getting any benefit. then when i had desire to learn the deen. I approach several local scholars (alim) that i knew asking them if they could give me some time even if was just 30 minutes a week to study qur'an and fiqh, most said they were to busy and a few asked how much i could afford to give them, I said money would not be an issue if they taught me privately I would give them whatever they wanted within reason (someone asking for money for their time, effort etc i do not have an issue with) the amounts they were asking was rediculous. I spoke with another brother in a town near by he said that their imaam was really good he might give me time, so i went to see him (another sunni brailvi mosque) I explained him the situation that i wish to learn the deen, he said sorry i do not have the time. I learnt afterwards that in the madarasah they don't have more then 50 kids. whilst the deobani centre down the road has 800 kids. I went to another alim in the same town, same answer there to didn't have the time.

    Then by Allah grace i went to a mehfil at a brothers home where there was a scholar attending, i spoke with him he said he would be happy to teach me but he had 6 months left before he was to return back to his country of origin, may allah bless that person he was true to his word, even when he was sick and i mean vomitting etc because i traveled to see him for study he gave me time.

    then i met one shaykh may Allah bless his soul, i spoke at length he said to me that ahle sunnat alims were "tillay" when it come to tadrees and that where i lived in the uk i would be hard pushed to find any sunni scholar who would give me anytime to learn the deen, he said to me (these are his words) you are better off getting books yourself and studying yourself, and what you do not know ask and beg and ask until you learn, no one will help you in these coming days...I could not read one word of urdu, the next year i met him he brought for me some basic urdu teaching books (5 in all) and several books such as towzeh ul aqaid (maulana As shaykh Shah Ruknuddin al Alvi naqshbandi), deeni mUSTAPHA (Shaykh ul hadith Muhadithi Lahore Sayyed Mahmood Rizvi), bahari shariat and Tafsir ul Hasanaat (which is amazing) etc I taught myself urdu and tarted to read those books and others i accumulated on the way. even when i had a masalah and ask our local imaam shaykh etc they haven't the time to explain, so if i seem a bit up tight and crude at time when you make such comments, I make nay excuses and neither do i try to point fingers at people or call them "stupid", "ignorant" or "trolls". At least i have an excuse, but try not to hide behind it, whats yours?

    atarkakom fi amanillah
    ch khan likes this.
  8. Lonely_Mountain

    Lonely_Mountain Active Member

    Sorry I might have misunderstood but can't one learn through personal research? Like don't they both occur at the same time and have an interdependent relationship maybe ?
  9. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    This is a tad confusing.

    If the mother of the believers was born in 605 CE, and she passed away 50 years after Hijrah, she would have lived for 68 years (or 67 years). Which means she lived only 39 years, after the passing away of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him). Nevertheless, her demise would still be during the reign of Hazrat Muawiyyah (may Allah be pleased with him)

    Most historians agree that she passed away on 18 Ramadan, 58 Hijri. It can be safely assumed that this data is more reliable than the date of her birth. Hence, as per Mufti Zahid sahibs calculations, she would be 75-76 years old - he however states that she died 8 years earlier, at age 67-68.

    It seems more plausible that the consummation took place when Syedah Aaishah was 12 or 13 years old - which was the norm in those days.

    Kindly see a small comparison of the data attached.

    My paternal grand-mother and also my mom's aunty (may Allah have mercy upon them both) - told me that they got married when they were just 12-13. And they became mothers very soon after that.

    This is 13 Centuries, after Hijrah.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    then, you should stop personal research for the time being and begin to do some learning.

    fi amanillah
  11. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    That is a very good summery of the situation in the UK, its not an isolated issue its all over the uk. As i have said in other post braadri comes first rather then aqeeda, and it has caused a schism, which has inevitably effected the quality and level of tadrees in our sunni masaajids especially in the UK.

    Our faith should be based upon sound proofs and certainty, where there is uncertainty we must adopt the middle ground since our aaqa sarkari madina sallahu alayhi was salam said in many hadeeth that safety was with the middle way (al jame3atu rehmaton wal firqatu azaabon), wqe can be in the middle without being too hard or too soft yet not comprimising our aqeeda (thats my position anyway). We must do tasdeeq on what is been established as kufr and draw others through good naseeha and knowledge ewven those that are sat on the fence without pointing finger, as we should be careful and understand that if you point 1 finger 3 will point back at you.
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ok. my sincere apologies for letting my cynicism get to you. i couldn't put a few aspects of your online persona together and this post helps explain things somewhat. i don't say this with any sympathy or pity. i say it respectfully, man to man, because your post didn't sound like crocodile tears or something. tbh, i liked this post of yours.

    this is a shame really. if you make a sincere effort to learn deen, they shouldn't turn you down.

    but then again, going by the posts of brothers in the uk, a big chunk of "Sunni" masaajid aren't really doing any favors to non-dyslexic people either. the only people they seem to be doing favors to is to their uk neighborhood chums hailing from the same village back home and imported relatives, whether they're members of the mosques committes, or khateebs, or a part of the congregations! as always, there are exceptions where mosques actually work towards teaching people deen and how to work for it, as opposed to running fan clubs with the rabble-rousing against deviants only for good measure and aimed at keeping the fan club and mawlana sab/pir sab's chair going on for as long as possible!
    snaqshi likes this.
  13. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    sallam alaykom brother, Your question is fair and valid one, the post below in part is my own personal reasearch and rest is summery i have picked up from others ( i have no shame in saying that or hidding the fact). The last point of my post "Bikr" that you refer to was giving to me by a palestinian brother from jeruslam who i have not spoken with in a while, we debate together with christians on the matter of christianity.

    Regarding your curiosity about "my short cuts" well I am diyslexic and suffered from stammers when i was younger have no shame in hiding that fact too.

    When our own ahle sunnat masaaajids let people down like me regarding teaching us the deen I am humble enough to be thankful that Allah azza wa jal who granted me so much mercy in allowing me to be in the sohbet of great alims of the deen, that i was able to know ahle sunnat aqeedah and have enough akhlaaq and manners to show others respect and humility that was not offered and is not) offered to people.

    So i do not make any excuses for being wrong if I am wrong alHamdolillah my Allah grant me the toufeeq to be humble enought to except, make touba and be on a better way and neither do I seek any sympothy since on the day of judgement i will have to account for my words and actions and they will be no tea and sympothy on that day.
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    @snaqshi - is the above post in english your own research or the summary of your research, or something you just picked up from the net somewhere?

    you intrigue me!

    on the one hand, you (supposedly?) explain the difference between "bikr" and "thayyib"

    on the other hand, you have left an annoying trail of "daman barakatom aliyya" all over this forum; and you address a man (Aqib Qadri) as "ilayki" (in the same post i linked)!

    i'm just curious if you are actually aware of what you type. you might be using your own version of mobile messaging short cuts like gr8, 'coz, u c it, etc. - but i doubt it.
  15. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    I have debated many christians and ati-mulsims on this issue, I have quite a big reasource on christian debates that i have collected over the past 5 years debating christians on christianity and their anti0-muslem rehtoric. here are some of the proofs i have used on this issue:

    • Major point to draw attention to is "where in the qur'an does it say you are allowed to marry a female that has not reached the age of maturity?" In fact the Qur'an draws us to the fact that they must have reach an age of maturity and responsibility in their affairs:

    وَٱبْتَلُواْ ٱلْيَتَامَىٰ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغُواْ النِّكَاحَ فَإِنْ آنَسْتُمْ مِّنْهُمْ رُشْداً فَٱدْفَعُواْ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ
    Try, test, well the orphans, before reaching maturity with regard [the duties of] religion and [before] they can [legally] manage their own affairs, until they reach the age of marrying, that is, until they have become eligible for it through puberty or [legal] age... [Qur'an 4:6]

    • The argument used by many christians and anti-muslim agenda's present hadeeth narrated reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event so well known (marriage of the beloved of Allah sallahu alayhi was sallam), should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.
    • It is quite strange that no one from Madinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Madinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Madinah for seventy one years.
    • Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol 11, pg 48 - 51)
    • Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi was sallam) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 - 302)
    • According to the generally accepted tradition, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha is reported to have said that at the time of Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah.
    • According to a number of hadeeth, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadeeth and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.
    • According to almost all the historians Sayyidah Asma bint Abi Bakr radi allahu ta'ala anha the elder sister of Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha was ten years older than Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha. It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Sayyidah Asma radi allahu ta'al anha died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Sayyida Asma radi alahu ta'ala naha was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Sayyida Asma Radi allahu ta'ala anah was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
    • Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Sayyidina sadeeqi Akbar radi allkahu ta'ala anho reports that sadeeqi Akbar radi allahu ta'ala anho had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. If Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.
    • According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab radi allahu ta'ala anho This shows that Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha should not have been born during the first year of Islam.
    • According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Ummul mumineen Sayyidah Khadijatul Kubra radi allahu ta'ala anha, when kaulah raddi allahu ta'ala anha came to the Prophet sallaahu alayhi was sallam advising him to marry again, the Prophet sallahu alayhi was salam asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet sallahu alayhi was salam asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah radi allahu ta'ala anha proposed Umm al Mu'mineen sayyidah Ayesha radi allahu ta'ala anha name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. "Bikr" is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
    I hope that helps, Allah knows best

    Fii imaanullah
  16. Lonely_Mountain

    Lonely_Mountain Active Member

    Does this link help?

  17. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    If the Nikaah took place in 620 CE, it means that the Nikaah (not the consummation)
    (1) took place in Makkah shareef,
    (2) before the Migration.
    (3) and the Holy Prophet was 50 years old.

    All historians agree that the consummation took place a maximum of 3 years after the Nikaah. So then, (if we take 620 CE) the consummation:---
    (1) took place in Makkah shareef, (incorrect - it took place in Medina Shareef)
    (2) before the Migration. (incorrect - it is after the migration. Hijrah took place when the Prophet was 53 years)
    (3) and the Holy Prophet was 52 years old.(so still before Hijrah)
  18. ottoman

    ottoman Veteran

    Aisha radiallahu anha was 18 years old when Muhammad alaiyhsalam passed away.
  19. ottoman

    ottoman Veteran

    according to scholars, Aisha raiallahu anh was 9 years old.
  20. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Traditional scholars, historians and muhaddith do not agree to what has been posted above. Shaykh Gibril has refuted these claims and is available on internet.

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