Ala Hadrat, Rahmat Allahi Tala-life span of the ummat e Muslima

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by basirqadri786, Nov 14, 2016.

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  1. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    a side note:
    Is it Uthmani Khilafat or Uthmani Dawla ?

    Because I thought all the four Imams agree Khalifa is suppose to be Qureshi.
     
  2. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam gave us the minor and major signs of the Hour, so no one is disputing this.

    Deobandis Wahabis claims and have books against Sunnis about Ilm al-Ghaib, that we (SUNNIS) believe that Prophets and Awliya have the knowledge of the Hour.

    http://islamiclifestyle.weebly.com/uploads/5/5/8/9/5589116/the_beloveds_majesty_-_sample.pdf
    In the khutba of the book Madaarijun-Nubuwwah, Shaikh Abdul-Haqq Muhaddith Dehlwi states that this verse is both the praise of Allah and the praise of His Beloved . The Holy Prophet is the first of all, the last of all, he is evident to all, he is obscured, and he has knowledge of everything.

    and
    Belief of the Ahle Sunnah about ‘ilm of the Ghayb

    Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan (Allah have mercy on him) states:-

    “Allah has informed His Prophets about certain things from the Unseen. The knowledge of the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) is more than anyone else’s. Nobody can be equal to the knowledge of the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) knowledge in the world. The five special things of the Unseen, Allah has informed some of these parts to the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace)”.

    (See book Ja-alhaq, chapter Masa’la Gaib by Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan.)

    What makes us different than Deobandis and Wahhabis on this matter and why did Deobandis and Barzanji write against AlaHazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Barelvi.


    “It is without a doubt that the Almighty has given His Noble Beloved (Allah bless him and grant him peace) the complete knowledge of everything from the first till the last. From the east to the west, from the Throne till the earth, everything was shown to him. He was made witness to the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. From the very first day till the last day all of the knowledge of what was and what shall be (ma kana wa ma yakun) has been shown to him. From all of the above, not even an iota is outside the knowledge of the Prophet. Great knowledge has been encompassed by the Noble Beloved (Allah bless him and grant him peace). It is not just of a summary type but what is small and big, every leaf that falls and every grain in the darkness of the earth are in their entirety known to him individually and in detail. Much praise to Allah. In fact, that which has been discussed is not, never, the complete knowledge of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace and send peace on his family and companions, all of them); but this is a small part of the Prophet’s knowledge …” (Anba al-Mustafa)


    https://archive.org/details/rafa_rayb
    رفع الريب عما نال المصطفى من علم الغيب (المسمى) الدولة المكية بالمادة الغيبية
     
  3. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    If we examine the signs that are yet to come before it, then doomsday won't come in our lifetime for sure;

    What must concern us is the same question that the Holy Prophet asked one companion: "what is our preparation for it?
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    they are very weak according to ibn Hajar, and according to ibn al-jawzi they are fabricated. will in sha'Allah reply later about what i think is your confusion.

    but remember the golden rule: no one knows about the Hour except Allah ta'ala, and by His informing the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. any estimation is just that - it doesn't have to be the absolute, literal, unalterable and exact truth.

    نسأل الله العافية

    wa's salam.
     
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  5. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    izz alDin:

    Also, separate from that, Ala Hadrat, is attributed as saying that, by 1837 A.H., there will be no Islamic rule on this earth, and, in 1900 A.H., Imam alMahdi, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu, will appear. Considering, that the wisal of Ala Hadrat, was the 25th of Safar 1340 A.H., and, if we where to consider the 'Uthmani Khilafat, as the last, administration, (provided, there, where, no other, Muslim administrations, that, I, may not know of, that, where, on going, even though, most of the Muslim world was colonised), that was abolished by the 3 of Rajab 1342, how, can, we interpret this?
    on what basis will you conclude that the uthmani khilafat IS INDEED the last administration?

    Abu Hasan:

    once you answer that question, we can examine the rest of your interpretation.
    once you answer that question, we can examine the rest of your interpretation.

    ***

    My thoughts, where, perhaps, it could refer to post - colonialism of the Muslim world, and, that, after this, they will be, able to administer themselves again, (assuming there is no templer influence, via their occult practises, and proxy comes to mind, also "robot zombies", (a deduction from francis bacon, about witchcraft and science, at the highest level)) and, become very strong again, and, then again be overtaken, or be in a state of chaos.

    Has Ala Hadrat not mentioned, (and this may help), an interpretation about the 12 Imams being from Quraysh. Correct me, if I am wrong, after the Khulafah alRashidin, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhum, that is 5, and the 'Ulama alKiraam, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhum, include Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiya, Imam 'Umar ibn 'Abd alAziz al'Umawi, and Harun alRashid, that leaves three, considering Ala Hadrat mentions a qiyas with the Ayat alKarima, mentioning the Malaika sent at Badr, that where increased from 3000 to 5000, could it mean 2 more virtuous Khalifa 's, (with the stature of Amir to all Mu'minin), will be sent by Allah Azza wa Jall, before the Imam, Sayyiduna alMahdi, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu?

    ***
    1) Apparently, (https://islamqa.info/en/33689mam ), our Imam, alSuyuti, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayh, mentions that Sayyiduna Imam alMahdi, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu, will appear after twelve hundred years.

    2) alMalfuz alSharif, mentions, Imam alSuyuti, predicted alQiyama, around 1300 A.H.

    3) Imam alSuyuti, 'the lifespan of this ummah is more than one thousand years and less than 1500 years.'Imam alSuyuti, “The period cannot be fifteen hundred years at all.”

    Is this a good understanding from me,
    Could you explain, if not?
    alQiyama is after, the major signs and the Ummah has ended, in what has been mentioned ?

    5) with regard to these understandings, in this aspect of eschatology, (about signs before, and the arrival of, Sayyiduna al Imam alMahdi, Radhi Allahu Ta' ala anhu, on a specific date, and other signs before alQiyama and the Day of Judgement), is it, the perspective, in general/or a view, of ahl alSunna wa alJama, that, the ahadeeth and reports, Imam alSuyuti, (or other 'A'imma alKiraam), Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayhim, quoted as evidence to support their point of view, are unreliable, because "they are Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) which cannot be taken as evidence, and some of the rest are da’eef (weak), and the scholars ruled that they are lies and fabrications (mawdoo’)"?

    6) are the Ahadith alSharif, about the life-span of the Ummah, daef?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alahazrat has repeatedly said in this question and the previous that all of this is ghayb - unseen - and the knowledge of the Hour is only with Allah ta'ala; and by His informing, RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam knows [though among ahl al-sunnah, there are ulama who disagree with the latter statement].

    now, there are signs mentioned in the hadith, which have been discussed (regardless of the source) below; these are open to interpretation. ulama interpret these hadith according to their own observation and knowledge. no one makes a claim of exactness or that their opinion is absolute and the information is certain.

    in this particular issue, alahazrat says: 'it seems that the world may survive, and imam mahdi MAY appear around 1900 AH (i.e., 2464 CE, about 450 years from now).' but this is not claimed as absolute knowledge - nor is there any harm if the calculations or assumptions or estimations of our ulama are incorrect concerning future events.

    alahazrat has repeatedly emphasised that no authority has mentioned a specific date and it is just an estimation. there is no harm in estimating when will the Hour be - it only becomes problematic when someone announces a specific date or year, whether of imam mahdi's appearance or of the impending doom.

    alahazrat also mentions that this is an interpretation of what shaykh al-akbar wrote as kashf. there are a number of possibilities here for the 'kashf' to be misinterpreted or to be misunderstood. but as i said, there is no harm in ESTIMATING - the problem is only when someone INSISTS and claims CERTAINTY and absolute knowledge.

    [in sha'Allah, will discuss an ibarat from fayD al-qadir of munawi]
    --
    i still cannot make out who is quoting what - and which one you are talking about. you yourself have posted the translation of al-malfuz which is mostly correct; and you have also posted the urdu version of al-malfuz. i cannot make out which portion of 'quote' puts you in a quandry.

    i read your first post you labelled as 'najdi says'. where does he mention alahazrat? so we have two sources - one from malfuz and another the 'najdi answer'/islamqa.

    first, you need to sort your questions and identify statement(s) that appear to contradict.

    ---
    WHICH two opinions? you quote the islamqa article attributing to suyuti and refer back to malfuz and ask if there are two opinions.

    as far as i can see, the islamqa article refers directly to suyuti and if you have any specific question about it, ask without cluttering it with random cut and paste.

    if you are asking anything specific about alahazrat's mention of suyuti's opinion in malfuz, then ask a different question. don't try to mix and match.

    ====
    on what basis will you conclude that the uthmani khilafat IS INDEED the last administration?

    once you answer that question, we can examine the rest of your interpretation.

    ===

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  7. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Salam e masnun

    Please disregard the previous post, here it is with proper separation of each quote, (maybe, a moderator can delete previous), also important to cut and paste as this is what ordinary Muslims in the western hemisphere maybe talking about:

    Question 1:

    Here, (previous post), it is attributed to Ala Hadrat, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayh, that, he said, Imam alSuyuti, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayh, said, Judgement Day will be around 1300 A.H, not mentioning the lifespan the Umma

    P.128, alMalfuz alSharif, Imam Ahmad Radha Khan Berailvi, tran. Mufti Abd alHadi, South Africa.

    bg73.png

    But, in the following, few paragraphs, the najdi is attributing to Imam alSuyuti:

    ***

    https://islamqa.info/en/33689

    "The view referred to in the question was suggested by al-Suyooti (may Allah have mercy on him) in his book al-Haawi, 2/249-256, in which he said that this world would last for seven thousand years and that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent at the end of the sixth millennium.

    The end of the sixth millennium means half way through it. Based on that the lifespan of this ummah is more than one thousand years and less than 1500 years.

    He said: “The period cannot be fifteen hundred years at all.”

    I.e., the period must be less than fifteen hundred years.

    Then he mentioned the ahaadeeth and reports which he quoted as evidence to support that, some of which are Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) which cannot be taken as evidence, and some of the rest are da’eef (weak), and the scholars ruled that they are lies and fabrications (mawdoo’)."

    And,

    "3 – What al-Suyooti himself said indicates that this view is false.

    He mentions that the Mahdi will appear after twelve hundred years, but fourteen hundred years have passed and the Mahdi has not appeared yet."

    ***

    Question 2:

    Is our Imam, Ala Hadrat, being correctly quoted?

    ***

    Few paragraphs, Imam alSuyuti, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayh, quoted here about, the life span of the Ummah, as 1500, years:

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-348087.html

    "Imam as-Suyuti [the author of the Tafsir al jalalayn] who was born in the 10th century and lived into the 11th century was alive during these times, he wrote a fatwa [legal ruling] to reassure muslims, in which he said it was supposed to be 1000 years but there is a dua of rasul Allah in which he supplicates Allah to give his Ummah another half a day and the companions asked the prophet how long is half a day and he answered 500 years. So the imam said the life of this Ummah is 1,500 years.

    Imam as Suyuti mentions in his book “Risalah Al-Kashf ‘an mujawazt hadehel ommah al alf”, or “treastie on revealing of the proceeding of this nation beyond the thousand, ” page 206 about the advent of the Mahdi that, “from what the narrations reveal is that the age of this ummah extends beyond a thousand but it doesnt exceed in increase another 500 in actuality beyond this thousand.”"

    ***

    Question 3:

    Are these two different opinions from Imam alSuyuti, or, are people interpreting what Imam alSuyuti, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala alayh, has written, any brothers answers?

    Question 4:

    Also, separate from that, Ala Hadrat, is attributed as saying that, by 1837 A.H., there will be no Islamic rule on this earth, and, in 1900 A.H., Imam alMahdi, Radhi Allahu Ta'ala anhu, will appear. Considering, that the wisal of Ala Hadrat, was the 25th of Safar 1340 A.H., and, if we where to consider the 'Uthmani Khilafat, as the last, administration, (provided, there, where, no other, Muslim administrations, that, I, may not know of, that, where, on going, even though, most of the Muslim world was colonised), that was abolished by the 3 of Rajab 1342, how, can, we interpret this?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    brother you mix up everything. please use dashes, use separators whatever.
    one cannot see where your citation starts or YOUR opinion ends.

    besides, you cut and paste without comment, without properly mentioning sources etc.
     
  9. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    From a najdi sight:
    https://islamqa.info/en/33689

    Question:

    I heard that some scholars said that the Day of Resurrection would happen before the year 1500 AH, and they quoted some ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as evidence. Is this view correct?

    ***

    The view referred to in the question was suggested by al-Suyooti (may Allah have mercy on him) in his book al-Haawi, 2/249-256, in which he said that this world would last for seven thousand years and that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent at the end of the sixth millennium.

    The end of the sixth millennium means half way through it. Based on that the lifespan of this ummah is more than one thousand years and less than 1500 years.

    He said: “The period cannot be fifteen hundred years at all.”

    I.e., the period must be less than fifteen hundred years.

    Then he mentioned the ahaadeeth and reports which he quoted as evidence to support that, some of which are Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) which cannot be taken as evidence, and some of the rest are da’eef (weak), and the scholars ruled that they are lies and fabrications (mawdoo’).

    ***

    iew referred to in the question was suggested by al-Suyooti (may Allah have mercy on him) in his book al-Haawi, 2/249-256, in which he said that this world would last for seven thousand years and that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent at the end of the sixth millennium.

    The end of the sixth millennium means half way through it. Based on that the lifespan of this ummah is more than one thousand years and less than 1500 years.

    He said: “The period cannot be fifteen hundred years at all.”

    I.e., the period must be less than fifteen hundred years.

    Then he mentioned the ahaadeeth and reports which he quoted as evidence to support that, some of which are Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) which cannot be taken as evidence, and some of the rest are da’eef (weak), and the scholars ruled that they are lies and fabrications (mawdoo’).

    ***

    2 – These reports which al-Suyooti (may Allaah have mercy on him) quoted as evidence were classed as da’eef (weak) by the scholars, and indeed they ruled that they were lies.

    Ibn al-Qayyim said in al-Manaar al-Muneef (1/80), where he mentions the ways in which a hadeeth may be known to be mawdoo’:

    “(one of these ways is): if the hadeeth goes against the clear meaning of the Qur’aan, such as the hadeeth which says that this world will last for seven thousand years and that we are now in the seventh millenium. This is one of the most obvious of lies. Because if it were correct then everyone would know that there was only two hundred and fifty-one years left until the Resurrection from our time [i.e., the time of Ibn al-Qayyim]. But Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “They ask you about the Hour (Day of Resurrection): “When will be its appointed time?” Say: “The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (Alone). None can reveal its time but He. Heavy is its burden through the heavens and the earth. It shall not come upon you except all of a sudden.” They ask you as if you have a good knowledge of it. Say: “The knowledge thereof is with Allaah (Alone)…”

    [al-A’raaf 7:187]

    Ibn Katheer said in al-Nihaayah fi’l-Fitan wa’l-Malaahim (1/25):

    There is no (sound) ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) defined when the Hour would be, rather he mentioned some of its portents and signs.

    He also said (2/28):

    With regard to the statements in the books of the Israa’eeliyyeen and the People of the Book which suggest that this world will last for a certain number of millennia, more than one of the scholars have stated that these are mistaken, and it comes as no surprise that they were mistaken. There is a hadeeth which says, “This world is one of the weeks of the Hereafter” but its isnaad is not saheeh either. The same applies to every hadeeth which states a specific time for the Day of Resurrection – none of their isnaads can be proven.

    Al-Sakhaawi said in al-Maqaasid al-Hasanah (p. 444):

    Everything that has been narrated describing a specific time for the Day of Resurrection either has no basis at all or its isnaad cannot be proven.

    3 – What al-Suyooti himself said indicates that this view is false.

    He mentions that the Mahdi will appear after twelve hundred years, but fourteen hundred years have passed and the Mahdi has not appeared yet.

    He says that people will remain for one hundred and twenty years after the sun rises from the west, then the Hour will begin. This means that the sun should have been rising from the west for more than twenty years!

    He says that the Dajjaal will appear after one hundred years, and the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam will come down and kill him, and he will remain after that for forty years, but here we are in the last century – according to what he says, and the Dajjaal has not appeared and the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam has not yet come down.

    He says that several of the major signs such as the Dajjaal, the descent of ‘Eesa and the rising of the sun from the west will happen more than two hundred years before the Hour begins.
     
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  11. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Salam
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-348087.html

    We are now in the Islamic year 1431, Hijri [Islamic calendar].

    There are a number of hadith regarding the age of the Muslim community or how long Islam will remain on earth, when you combine these ahadith with the signs of the hour you will see we are on the same time frame as these ahadith and indeed all scholars in the Muslim world agree that the minor signs of the hour have come to pass and we are living in the final phase of this world.

    The prophet [may Allah bless him] said “When my Community keeps on the right, it is going to enjoy an age of one day, and when it does not keep on the right, it will have an age of half a day”. [al-Bayan, Tafsir of Surat al-‘Asr.]

    In another version the Prophet said, “If my Community keeps on the right, it is going to enjoy an age of one day, and if it becomes corrupt, it will have an age of half a day.” [Al-Munawi cites it in Fayd al-Qadir from Shaykh Muhyi al-Din Ibn ‘Arabi.]

    Allah said in the Holy Qur’an: And one day according to Allah’s estimation is 1,000 years according to yours. (al-Hajj 22:47)

    A scholar said regarding these ahadith: “Thus the Islamic community of the right way would flourish for one thousand years and the community in decline would last for another five hundred years. For the first millennium of Islamic civilization, the Muslims were favoured by Allah with an advancement unparalled before or after. Muslims were at the forefront of not only religious development but also were the world’s leading researchers, physicians, chemists, astronomers, botanists, philosophers, and architects. Muslims were the shining lights that illuminated Europe and touched off the Renaissance. After its first millennium a gradual yet definite decline began within the Ummah which has continued until our present time. As the Muslims have wandered away from the way of the Prophet and Allah’s heavenly message of Islam, the divine blessings and support have similarly diminished. Miraculously, the Prophet predicted that this process would take one thousand years and it came to pass. The second prediction in this hadith is that the Ummah will continue further for five hundred more years in decline. Thus, according to this understanding of this hadith Allah has granted the Ummah a lifespan of fifteen hundred years, and Allah knows best. This prediction of a fifteen hundred year lifespan is also in keeping with the recent appearance of the Signs of the Last Days. These signs have not appeared in their totality until lately. Even a cursory examination of these signs shows their present-day fulfilment as foretold by the Prophet Muhammad over fourteen hundred years ago. The 1000th year of the Islamic Hijri calendar was marked by the rule of Ottoman sultan Murad III 1546–95 (ruled 1574–95), son and successor of Selim II. He was dominated by his family, and although his generals were successful against Persia, his reign marked the beginning of the decay of the Ottoman Empire and the Islamic caliphate as a whole.

    Other evidence regarding the age span of the Muslim community.

    Imam Al-Bukhari narrates in his sahih from Abdullah Ibn Umar that he heard the Prophet of Allah say : ” verily your stay in comparison to the nations before you is like the time period between the prayers of ‘Asr ( mid-afternoon ) till sunset, The people of the Torah were given the Torah and they worked until noon and they couldn’t continue further, so they were given one Qirat, then the people of the Gospel were given the Gospel and they worked until the time of ‘Asr or mid-afternoon then they couldnt continue further, and were given a single Qirat, then we were given the Quran and we worked until the time of the sunset and were given two Qirats. (Seeing this) The people of the Book said :” Oh Allah you had given them (the ummah of Muhammad) two Qirats whereas you have given us only one and we are the most in terms of deeds.” He said,” Allah said (to them):” Have I oppressed in anything in your rewards?” and they said : “No.” (then) Allah said: “It is my bounty to whomsoever I wish I bestow”.

    In another variation Bukhari reports in his Sahih from Abu Musa (ra) the Prophet said: ” The example of the Muslims, Jews and Christians is like that of a person who hired a people who would work for him till evening, but worked till noon and said : “we have no need for your compensation”, then another people were hired and told : “Complete what has remained of the day’s work and you will have what has been promised”, and so they worked until when the time of Asr (mid-afternoon) prayers came and they said: “this is all what we could have worked”, and so another people were hired and they worked for the rest of the day until the sunset and thus they completed the reward of both (of the previous) groups.”

    Hafiz Ibn al-Hajr al-Asqalani [a prominent Islamic scholar who died in 852 hijri calendar] says in his Fath al Bari , (in vol.4 , book of hire/ijara, page 448-449) commenting on these two narrations : “and it is evident ( from these stated narrations) that the lasting of this Islamic nation is somewhat a thousand years, this is because the age of the Jewish nation is equivalent to that of the time periods of the Christian and Muslim ages combined, and the people of transmission (ahl an naql) have agreed that the period of the Jews till the advent of Allah’s final Apostle Muhammad was more than 2000 years, and the span of the age of the Christians was 600 years from them. And also this narration points the fact about how little of the age of this world has remained.”

    When Muslims reached the 1,000th year they thought they were nearing the end because of these sahih ahadith which indicated we will have half the time the Jewish nation had, but Imam as-Suyuti [the author of the Tafsir al jalalayn] who was born in the 10th century and lived into the 11th century was alive during these times, he wrote a fatwa [legal ruling] to reassure muslims, in which he said it was supposed to be 1000 years but there is a dua of rasul Allah in which he supplicates Allah to give his Ummah another half a day and the companions asked the prophet how long is half a day and he answered 500 years. So the imam said the life of this Ummah is 1,500 years.

    Imam as Suyuti mentions in his book “Risalah Al-Kashf ‘an mujawazt hadehel ommah al alf”, or “treastie on revealing of the proceeding of this nation beyond the thousand, ” page 206 about the advent of the Mahdi that, “from what the narrations reveal is that the age of this ummah extends beyond a thousand but it doesnt exceed in increase another 500 in actuality beyond this thousand.”

    The Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him) said: I hope my community will not fail to maintain their position in the sight of their Lord if He delays them half a day. Sa'd was asked: How long is half a day? He said: It is five hundred years. (500 years) [Imam Ahmad, al-Hakim and Abu Dawud in their respective works, and Abu Nai’m in his hilyaa who reported from Sa’d ibn Abi Waqas]

    The Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him) said: Allah will not fail to detain this community for less than half a day. (500 years). [Abu-Dawud]

    The life of this community will exceed 1000years, yet be limited to 1500 years.

    (Al-Barzanji, Al-Isha'ah li-ashrat al-sa'ah, p. 299)

    Meaning beyond the thousand years, Allah will not keep the Muslim Ummah on earth more than another 500 years, we are in the year 1431 of the promised 1500 years. I should mention this isn’t the time for the day of judgment this is simply the lifespan of this Ummah, the day of judgment will not come as long as there is a single person on earth saying “Allah Allah” irrespective of whether Iman is present in their hearts, they would simply be imitating what they heard from their fathers without knowing its meaning and Only Allah knows when it will be “People ask you concerning the Hour, say: ‘The knowledge of it is with Allah only. What do you know? It may be that the Hour is near!’” [al-Ahzaab 33:63]

    The Prophet of Allah is reported to have said : ” In between the hands of the hour (Qiyamah), there will come out a breeze/wind and it will take away the spirit of every believer.” (reported by Ahmad, Muslim, Thirmidhi and Ibn Majah),
     
  12. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    That last post was from a najdi sight(url at the end ). Thought might be useful.
    You are right about where we take our knowledge from. But, it was a discussion that is needed, just to get better understanding. So, verifying different aqwal is important, and context.
    so, your, input and other brothers who have studied eschatology, the forth aspect of the Deen, would be useful, given the misunderstandings.
     
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    brother you are forgetting your sources again. where is all this from?
    if you are doing google search and posting random results - this doesn't make sense.
     
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  14. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    "The period between Adam and Nooh (peace be upon them both): it was narrated from Abu Umaamah that a man said: “O Messenger of Allaah, was Adam a Prophet?” He said, “Yes, and Allaah spoke to him.” The man asked, “How much (time) was there between him and Nooh?” He said, “Ten centuries.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh, 14/69; and by al-Haakim, 2/262. He said it is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim, and al-Dhahabi agreed with him. Ibn Katheer said in al-Bidaayah wa’l-Nihaayah (1/94): this is (saheeh) according to the conditions of Muslim, even though he did not narrate it."

    ***

    In vol. 1 Tarikh al-Tabari, p. 183-187 it reads:

    "All these facts taken together make it clear that of the two statements I have mentioned concerning the total extent of time, the one from Ibn 'Abbas, and the other from Ka'b, the one more likely to be correct in accordance with the information coming from the Messenger of Allah is that of Ibn 'Abbas transmitted here by us on his authority: The world is one of the weeks of the other world, seven thousand years.

    ...the conclusion is that the time of this world that had elapsed to the moment of the Prophets's salAllaahu 'alayhi wa salam statement corresponds to what we have transmitted on the authority of Abu Tha'labah al-Khushani from the Prophet, and is 6500 years or approximately 6500 years. Allah knows best!

    Our statement about the duration of the periods (azman) of this world from its very beginning to its very end is the most firmly established of all the statements we have, on account of the testimony to its soundness as explained by us. Information has (also) been transmitted on the authority of the Messenger of Allah salAllaahu 'alayhi wa salam to prove the soundness of the statement that all of this world is six thousand years. If its chain of transmitters were sound, we would have to go no further. It is Muhammad b. Sinan al-Qazzaz - 'Abd al-Samad b. 'Abd al-Warith - Zabban- 'Asim - Abu Salih - Abu Hurayrah: The Messenger of Allah salAllaahu 'alayhi wa salam said: Al-huqb is eighty years. The day of them is one-sixth of this world. According to this tradition, it is clear that all of this world is six thousand years. That is because, if one day of the other world equals one thousand years and a single such day is one-sixth of this world, the conclusion would be that the total is six of the days of the other world, and that is six thousand years.

    The jews assume that they can consider the total (age of the world) from Allah's creation of Adam to the time of the hijrah as firmly established at 4642 years according to what is clearly stated in their Torah - the one they posses today...

    The Greek Christians assume that...

    The Magians assume that...

    ***
    Not sure if this is helpful, but this talks about Ibn Abbas(rh) Hadith;

    4 - أثر ورد عن ابن عباس : (( أن الدنيا سبعة آلاف سنة )) .

    قال السخاوي عن هذا الأثر في " الأجوبة المرضية " 3 / 1095 : (( لا يصح ، لأن في سنده يحيى بن يعقوب القاص ، قال فيه البخاري : منكر الحديث ، وجزم العماد ابن كثير بأنه لا يصح إسناده ، وقال : وكذا كل حديث ورد فيه تحديد بوقت يوم القيامة على التعيين لا يثبت إسناده )) .

    وقال الطبري ما مختصره : إن صح حديث أبي ثعلبة الخشني ، فإن ما مضى من الدنيا إلى وقت قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هذا الحديث : 6500 سنة ، كان مقدار الباقي 500 سنة أو نحواً من ذلك أو قريباً منه . .

    ***

    The Qur’ân and Sunnah do not tell us much about the flora and fauna present on the Earth at the time of their [Adam and Eve] arrival, nor does it tell us how long ago they arrived. Therefore, these are things we cannot ascertain from the sacred texts. ... Yes, the Qur’ân tells us that the heavens and the Earth were created in six days, but the scholars of Tafsîr concede that we cannot be sure about the duration of these days.

    http://en.islamtoday.net/quesshow-166-925.htm

    Regarding the hadith of "10 qarns".

    This issue is of little importance it terms of the age of the earth because we don't know when Adam (A) came to earth.
    Even if one wants to argue for the shortest time interpretation for "qarn"
    there is no problem.
    There were some societies at the time which could fit the description of Nuh's(A) people

    ***

    Abu Ala Maududi says in his tafsir of 37:77


    This can have two meanings: (1) That the progeny of the people who were opposing the Prophet Noah was made extinct and the Prophet Noah's progeny alone was allowed to survive; and (2) that the whole human race was made extinct, and only the Prophet Noah's progeny was allowed to inhabit the earth after that.
    ... but the words of the Qur'an are not explicit in this regard and no one knows the reality except Allah.
    http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...erse=75&to=113

    He also says in his tafsir of 11:40-44

    This refutes the opinion of those historians and genealogists who trace the ancestry of all human beings to Noah's three sons. This misconception has arisen from the Israelite traditions which suggest that Noah, his three sons and their wives were the only survivors of the Flood.
    In connection with this great incident one is also faced with the question of whether the Flood was universal or whether it was limited to the area inhabited by the people of Noah. This question remains unanswered to this day. Under the influence of Israelite traditions, it is believed that it was a universal Flood (Genesis 7: 18-24). The Qur'an, however, does not explicitly say so.
    http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...verse=36&to=49

    ***
    As menionted by Shiekh Al Munajid
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/20907

    there are only 3 durations we are fully certain of

    1. The time Nuh(A) lived

    2. Time between Adam and Nuh(PBUT) ----this the "10 qarn" hadith whose actual
    meaning is disputable

    3. Time between Eesa and Muhhamed (PBUT)

    ***
    http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=16051
     
  15. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

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  16. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Salam
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  17. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Active Member

    the english translation of malfuz sharif is available on scribd.
     
  18. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Apologies last page:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

  20. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Salam
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016

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