Asadullah al-Andalusi and Camel Urine

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by Juwayni, Jun 29, 2018.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    deja vu.

    i have answered this so many times - but each time it was for a different brother, that i should have simply posted it here and shared the link. but the situation had required an immediate answer and i had replied pronto.

    ----
    ignorance because the person does not know what hadith imams said about it; arrogance because most modern day apologists think all our elders were blind followers and didn't think about issues; and only the college going folk can analyse or exercise reason. whereas the opposite is true - most 'educated' folk have abysmal reasoning skills and if you try a little harder mind-game, they will crumble like cookies. but yes, they are arrogant and they think they know better than early muslim scholars (though, they won't dare do that with scholars of secular sciences..)

    in sha'Allah wa bi tawfiqihi
     
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    https://www.facebook.com/AndalusianProject/posts/2170403236524685

    He is gone from worst to worse than worst. Ignorance and arrogance are a fatal mixture. This random nobody from nowhere is questioning/denying the immense knowledge granted to the Best of Creation (peace be upon him) and is claiming to battle Islamophobia - idiot and ignorant about his idiocy.

    He works at this yaqeen institute which has some notorious faces among other thingummies. Another gang of self-declared and self-hyped "scholars" - business as usual.
     
  3. Juwayni

    Juwayni Active Member

    Posted here

    Quote by Asadullah al-Andalusi [emphasis and highlights are mine]:

    "Your Prophet commanded people to drink camel urine! Islam is so unscientific. It's ridiculous that anyone would believe this!"

    I'm sure many Muslims have come across the above crude accusation made by many an Islamophobe lurking on social media. Some of you may not even be aware of where this accusation comes from. And some of you might actually be in doubt about this practice being part of the Prophet's (ﷺ) Sunnah.

    So, before getting into this, where does this claim come from to begin with? Actually, it's derived from the following authentic hadith:

    "The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet (ﷺ) he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron." (Sahih Bukhari, #5686)

    So, essentially some people traveled to Medina and were becoming sick, so the Prophet (ﷺ) told them to drink the milk and urine of camels to feel better. They eventually did and were seemingly cured of their ailments. As a result of this story, Islamophobes (and some Muslims alike) have taken this as evidence that Islam prescribes camel milk and urine as medicine. The logic goes as such: because the Prophet (ﷺ) -- being the perfect exemplar for mankind -- told a group of people to drink camel urine, it must be correct because the Prophet (ﷺ) can't be wrong.

    However, there is a major problem with this logic and the use of this hadith. And what is that problem? Simply put, Islamophobes and many Muslims don't understand what it means for the Prophet (ﷺ) to be a 'perfect exemplar'. You see, no where in the Islamic tradition has it been suggested that the Prophet (ﷺ) was perfect with regard to worldly matters irrelevant to the religion. Meaning, his perfection has to do with morality and religious knowledge only. In fact, the Prophet (ﷺ) was sometimes wrong or confused about things pertaining to science and other technical skills, which is why he sometimes had to ask advice from others around him, such as with regard to battle tactics.

    "Oh, that's an excuse! Apologetics! Blasphemy!"

    No, it's not. The answer I've provided comes from the mouth of the Prophet (ﷺ) himself in an authentic tradition:

    “I passed by some palm trees with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and he saw some people pollinating the trees. He said: 'What are these people doing?' They said: 'They are taking something from the male part (of the plant) and putting it in the female part.' He said: 'I do not think that this will do any good.' News of that reached them, so they stopped doing it, and their yield declined. News of that reached the Prophet (ﷺ) and he said: 'That was only my thought. If it will do any good, then do it. I am only a human being like you, and what I think may be right or wrong. But When I tell you: “Allah says,” I will never tell lies about Allah.'" (Sunan Ibn Majah. #2470 [Sahih]) [J: What is the correct translation and sharh of this narration?]

    In other words, the Prophet (ﷺ) is confessing here his lack of knowledge with respect to certain matters in science. So when it came to his knowledge of medicine, he was simply reiterating the common opinion of the day -- that camel's urine was somehow beneficial. The folly of so many who read these ahadith is that they assume just because he said this that it now becomes part of Islam as a result and a guaranteed fact of medicine. This is wrong. Just the same as many other things the Prophet (ﷺ) did or didn't do aren't necessary for Muslims to follow or believe.

    For example: The Prophet (ﷺ) rode camels. We now have cars and planes. Just because the Prophet (ﷺ) rode a camel does not necessitate that riding camels is the optimum form of transport for every time and place -- nor does Islamic doctrine stipulate that it is. The scholars were very clear to differentiate between passive/non-religious activities of the Prophet (ﷺ) and actual commands/behaviors that pertain to the religion.

    So why don't Islamophobes and many Muslims doubting their faith?

    Everyday I receive messages from people having doubts because some random guy on the Internet found a hadith and proclaimed a fatwa about "what Islam teaches". And honestly, I think if people just took the time to follow the Prophetic (ﷺ) example by admitting their own lack of knowledge in matters they don't fully comprehend -- rather than assume everything the Prophet (ﷺ) said and did was a matter of scientific fact -- we might just might be a little better off.

    The Prophet (ﷺ) didn't place any importance in camel urine to validate Islam or his prophet-hood, so why does anyone else?. #PleaseReflect

    ---
    End quote

    In the comments, quote:

    I think I need to make a further clarification here for many:
    The point of my post was not to suggests the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) was wrong or right. The point of my post was to show that it's unnecessary to tie your faith to particular ahadith by virtue of the fact that rejecting or accepting their scientific/medicinal benefits has nothing to do with our religion.
    Whether you think drinking camel urine or not drinking it is a good/bad thing has nothing to do with Islam. The Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) told some people to do it back then; they then felt better as a result.
    We can debate the technicalities of the medicinal benefits of camel urine all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not a necessary part of Islam to believe this treatment is good or bad or evidence of the Prophet's (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) genius about medicine.
    The Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) himself didn't place importance in camel urine for belief in Islam, so why do you? That's the point.

    Endquote

    Preliminary assessment: I take issue with his view in saying "In fact, the Prophet (ﷺ) was sometimes wrong or confused about things pertaining to science and other technical skills, which is why he sometimes had to ask advice from others around him, such as with regard to battle tactics."

    @abu Hasan , @Aqib alQadri @Noori
     

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