by your Lord [Oh Muhammad]

Discussion in 'Tafsir' started by sherkhan, Nov 9, 2007.

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  1. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I understand. That is why I said that "dhikr of Allah (azza wajal) may cease" rather than "will cease". "may" covers the possibility that He Himself may mention Him. Thanks for clearing this up for everyone else.

    The urdu speech went something like this:
    "zikr-e-khuda to band ho sakta hai, magar zikr-e-Mustafa kabhi band ho hi nahin sakta".

    The essence was lost in translation. Apologies for that.

    I see no problem reconciling the above statement in Urdu with the hadith you cited on sur.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    which is a fallacy based on the assumption that the dhikr of Allah ta'ala will stop and He Himself will not mention Him.

    tafsir ibn kathir, surah al-ghafir, 40:16:

    it has been mentioned earlier from the Hadith of Ibn Umar radiyallahu `anhu that when Allah ta'ala will have folded the heavens and the earth, He will say: 'I am the Monarch [Malik], I am the Powerful [Jabbar] I am the Exalted, the Great [Mutakabbir]; where are the kings of the world? Where are the tyrants? where are the haughty?

    in the Hadith of trumpet (sur): when He the Glorious, Majestic will take away the souls of the entire creation, and nothing remains except His Exalted Self and there is no partner unto him; He will say this three times:

    limani'l mulk al-yawm? to whom does sovereignty belong on this day?

    [when nobody answers],He will answer Himself: 'to Allah, the Only One, the Subduer!'.

    that is, He is the Only One who has subdued everything else and has triumphed over everything.

    why not. Allah ta'ala referred to Himself as Rabb of MuHammad sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam in the qur'an as in the verse of surah maryam, v.2:

    dhikru raHmati rabbika `abdahu zakariyyah.
    the mention of the mercy of Your Lord to His servant Zakariyyah.*

    where Allah ta'ala refers to Himself as the Rabb of Muhammad sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam.

    alaHazrat said:
    dam e naz'a jari ho meri zabaN par,
    Muhammad, Muhammad; Khuda - e - Muhammad [sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam.]

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    * imam razi says that there are two possibilities of the meaning 'mention of mercy'; either the recital is mercy to Zakariyyah alayhi's salam; or the mention of Zakariyyah alayhi's salam is a mercy to RasulAllah's sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam ummah.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but rather would be a preferred exegesis and it does not nullify what sidi aH said that Allāh subĥānahu wa táālā was Rabb when there was nothing. howerver, i'm skeptical of the analogy, and we need to confrim from ulama.
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    as i said sidi noori, let us take the subcontinent tradition out of it.

    can we not even entertain the tafsir that Allah referred to Himself as the Rabb of Muhammad [eventhough He is the Rabb al-'Aalameen] because the first to acknowledge His Rububiyah was sayyidina muhammad sallAllahu 'alaihi wasallam because he sallAllahu 'alaihi wasallam is the first creation [which is in line with sunni creed, anyway]?
  5. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    we should consult ulama to get more detail on this, because what I find is that
    the tafsir is based on a wont perhaps only found in the subcontinent and Rabb is an arabic word, so the correlation doesn't exist.
  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    On a slightly unrelated note, I have heard ulemas saying that the dhikr of Allah (azza wajal) may cease, but dhikr of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) will never cease.

    The case in point is the 40 year interregnum between the trumpet blows, when all the creations will cease to exist, thus bring the dhikr of Allah (azza wajal) to stop. Given His eternal existence, Alllah (azza wajal) will never cease in His dhikr of Rasulallah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    what if the issue of Allah being Rabb before creating anything is left aside? would it be a valid tafsir anyway if we say Allah referred to Himself as the Lord of Muhammad to let it be known that rasulAllah sallAllahu 'alaihi wasallam is the first creation as the first creation is the one who first acknowledged Allah as the Rabb?
  8. Misbah al-Hidaya

    Misbah al-Hidaya Active Member

    the Creator with His attributes is qadeem(eternal) so khaliq/Rabb if understood as bil quwwa and bil fe'l before and after creation respectively then what is wrong with that? if the idea of 'change' in immutable attributes (sifaat) is problematic for being God then how is it possible for maturidis to explain the interaction of an Eternal being to operate in the realms of temporality......i suppose....easy way out is La Ain and La Ghair....clealy shows what is the point of maturidis to engage in Kalam; they should have just followed Hambali approach...
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    we, the maturidis do not subscribe to this view. Allah ta'ala was Rabb when there was nothing; He was Khaliq and there was no Khalq; He was Razzaq when there was no one to receive rizq; He was Mutakallim from azal.

    as for kunya, many are addressed with their kunya even when they are not married.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    this is related to and is a tafsir i heard from pir sayyid abdul qadir shah jilani.

    in some cultures, like our subcontinent, a woman does not like to call her husband's name. rather, she refers to him as father of so-and-so. so, if the man has 5 children and the oldest is named 'umar, she will address him as 'umar ke abbu. this is because he first became a father when 'umar was born.

    Allah became known as the Rabb when he began creation. Rabb means sustainer.

    what Allah wants us to know what the verse: falaa wa rabbika... [By your Lord [Oh Muhammad] is that the first time he became known as the Rabb is when he created Muhammad sallAllahu 'alaihi wasallam because rasulAllah sallAllahu 'alaihi wasallam is the first creation.

    again, quite a beautiful tafsir.

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