Devbandi duo on ilm al-ghayb

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Waqar786, Jul 24, 2020.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the taqyid is that it is aTa'i and not dhati.
    and it is partial NOT complete. the knowledge of lawh and qalam is included in that partial knowledge.

    wAllahu a'alam.

    ---
    from TKM:


    tkm.png
     
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  2. RazaRaza

    RazaRaza New Member



    Sayyidi Ustadh Abu Hasan, what is the necessary taqyeed that he says was mentioned earlier? being ataai?
    Also what is the explanation of idh laa yaSiHHu iTlaaq ul-jamee3?
     
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    shaykh dussuqi's gloss on maHalli:

    dusuqi ala mahalli p1.png

    dusuqi ala mahalli p2.png
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    MS of mahalli's sharh:

    mahalli.png
     
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  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    MS of sharh burdah by raDi'uddin al-luTfi al-maqdisi (passed away after 1000 AH as mentioned in the MS)

    radi.png
     
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  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    from another MS attributed to imam abu shamah:

    MS - abu shamah.png
     
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  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    from a manuscript of a sharh attributed to imam abu shamah:

    abushamah.png
     
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  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

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  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in haytami's al-umdah:

    umdah sh.brd, haytami, p666.png

    umdah sh.brd, haytami, p667.png

    umdah sh.brd, haytami, p669.png
     
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  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    one should be wary of some modern editions. a case in point is the sharh of bajuri that is circulating on the internet.

    burd-baj cvr.png



    the commentary of the same line is like this.

    bajuri sh.burdah, p91.png


    =====
    i was taken aback because, i have previously read bajuri's sharh in an older format and this appears like it is snipped from here and there.

    upon examination, it is indeed 'summarised' by the editor. this is not the FULL version. whether deliberately or because of lazy editing, the author's own standpoint is misrepresented in this version.

    flag it up.
     
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  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in the burdah is the line:

    fa inna min judika'd dunya wa Darrataha
    wa min ulumika `ilm al-lawHi wa'l qalami

    and indeed, it is your favour - this world and the Hereafter
    and among [the many kinds] of your knowledge is the knowledge of the Tablet and the Pen.

    burdah,n154.png

    ===
    allamah ali al-qari says in his commentary, al-zubdah sh. al-burdah.


    zubdah.png

    zubdah:

    zubd,p281.png
     
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    henceforth, we must call them typo-clowns. these two are young idiots, so you can ignore them. but it is a sad reflection on their honchos who claim to spend decades teaching quran and hadith and yet spiritedly defend their wahabi beliefs.

    it is not their eyes that are blind; it is their hearts that are devoid of guidance.

    s22v46.png
     
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  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    those dumb deobandis who hang themselves on a typo need to expand their knowledge.

    the same ali al-qari, in his sharh al-shifa says: vol.1 p.721

    sh.shifa v1p721a.png


    which is clearly echoing his ibarat in al-mirqat.

    ---
    {among his dazzling miracles} - that is manifest signs

    {that Allah ta'ala has gathered for him among the sciences (or knowledge given to him) } that is the parts [or specific details]


    {and many kinds of knowledge} that is as a whole; and perceptions - hypothetical and certain; or innermost secrets and manifest lights...


    {specially given to him} that is, these kinds of knowledge were granted exclusively to him...

     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020 at 5:22 AM
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  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in the same mirqat, under hadith #725, narrated by abd al-Rahman ibn `ayish: [chapter on mosques and places where one can pray]

    mishkat,n725.png

    RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said:

    i beheld my Lord-Creator - Glory and Majesty be to HIm - in the most beautiful manner [without any modality] and He [i.e. Allah ta'ala] said: "what do the angels in the Highest Assembly [mala' al-a'ala] discuss/debate?"

    i replied: "You know best"

    so Allah ta'ala placed His Grace* between my shoulders and i perceived its coolness in my bosom and my heart.** then, i LEARNED about all that was in the heavens and the earth. and He said: "and thus We show ibrahim, the colossal kingdom of the heavens and the earth, so that his knowledge becomes absolutely certain"

    ---------

    in its explanation, al-qari says: mirqat, v2 p400:

    mirqat, v2p400.png


    {i LEARNED or i came to KNOW} because of receiving that immense grace


    {all that is in the heavens and the earth} meaning: that which Allah ta'ala taught him about angels, and trees and everything else. this describes the extent of the knowledge that Allah ta'ala opened for him.


    ibn Hajar said: "that is - the entire universe in which are the heavens; rather, all that is above the heavens, as we learn in the story of his Night Ascent; and the earth - meaning all that is in the seven earths and below them....

    ===
    *the word kaff meaning 'palm' is used. but the ahl al-sunnah do not attribute limbs to the Creator; but it is indicative of His Grace [faDl] as al-qari explains and is translated accordingly.

    * the dual is used - meaning bosom and heart [mirqat].
     
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  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    about the mirqat quote which the two clowns raving about.

    http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/deobandi-tampering-in-mirqat-al-mafatih.14543/

    ----

    this is from the hadith #5422; the full hadith is much longer, here is the relevant portion.

    here, our master SallAllahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam is informing us of the tribulations of final days.

    mirqat, v10p58a.png

    RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "indeed, i know their names, and the names of their fathers, and the colours of their horses. they are the best of riders - or (he said) among the best of riders - on the face of the earth on that day."


    ----
    commenting on this hadith, ali al-qari says:

    {RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "indeed, i know their names} that is the ten riders.

    {and the names of their fathers, and the colours of their horses} along with the fact that it is among miracles [mu'jizat] it also proves that his knowledge exalted is He/ta'ala [SIC] encompasses the knowledge of the universe [ka'inat] in its entirety and all the details related to it, and others.

    NOTE: we contend that instead of ta'ala it should be `alayhi's salam; "his knowledge" refers to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and not Allah ta'ala.

    HOWEVER, the correct statement would be:

    {and the names of their fathers, and the colours of their horses} along with the fact that it is among miracles [mu'jizat], it also proves that his knowledge alayhi's salam encompasses the knowledge of the universe [ka'inat] in its entirety and all the details related to it, and other things.


    ---

    mirqat, v10p58b.png

    ====
    this is translated by the deobandis as thus: urdu translation of mirqat, v10 p102:

    mirqat, urdu devbandi,v10p102.png
    trans of the urdu above: "in addition to this being among the miracles of our master alayhis salam, this also proves that the Knowledge of Allah taala encompasses all the minutiae and in their completeness"

    ===

    first of all, one can clearly see that neither is the hadith, nor is the commentary speaking about Allah ta'ala. 'proving' the knowledge of Allah here, is obviously out of place.

    the hadith says: "indeed, *i* KNOW the names of the riders, their fathers, and the colours of their horses."

    NOT: "indeed, Allah knows the names of the riders, their fathers, and the colours of their horses."

    so it should naturally follow in the commentary that in addition to this being a mu'jizah, it proves the extent of his [the Prophet's ﷺ] knowledge.

    =====

    fihi: IN IT
    - in what? in this piece of information that RasulAllah ﷺ gave us, that he "KNOWS the colours of the horses"

    ma'a kawnihi - TOGETHER IN IT'S BEING: 'together' or 'along with' WHAT?

    mina'l mu'jizati - AMONG MIRACLES: the two clowns may think that belief in mu'jizat of prophets is derived from extreme rafidis (vide their sit-on-couch-comedy) but at least the deobandi translator got it right that the 'mujizah' refers to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. so this hadith proves that it is among his miracles. right?

    dalalatun - PROOF. proof of what? notice that the TOGETHER ties "mujizat" with "proof of knowledge". one can claim isti'ynaaf, but the context clearly refutes them.

    `ala anna ilmahu muHitun - that his knowledge encompasses. WHOSE? this hadith is about prophecies and nowhere is the knowledge of Allah ta'ala being discussed.

    li'l kulliyati wa'l juz'yiyyati - in its entirety including the minutiae. notice that kulliyyat and juziyyat refer to whosoever the knowledge belongs to. you cannot say juz'yiyyat refers to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and kulliyyat refers to Allah ta'ala?

    now go back and check the hadith/commentary. what does juz'yiyyat refer to? unless one is extremely stupid like the two deobandi clowns, they will have to invariably agree that it refers to "the colours of the horses" that is the level of detail our master KNEW. of course devbandi juhala will happily say that it refers to Allah's knowledge.

    mina'l ka'inat wa ghayriha - of this universe and others.

    =====​

    even for the sake of argument, if you accept that the "knowledge of kulliyyat and juziyyat" refers to Allah's knowledge in this sentence, you will STILL have to accept that it was GIVEN to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. because - you got to be lobotomised to not see that it is RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam who says: "Verily I KNOW..."

    there is no dispute that Allah ta'ala knows everything. our contention is that the knowledge of universe - ma kana wa ma yakun - was also given to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    does this equate the knowledge of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam with that of Allah? no. because only the jahil deobandi restricts Allah's knowledge to ONLY the ma-kana-wa-ma-yakun. whereas, we say that this is like a billionth part of a drop in comparison to billions of oceans.


    ---
    as i have mentioned in another thread, a copyist made a mistake which was carried over by others; and deobandis cling to it as if it has a sahih sanad until ali al-qari. it appears that either there was a corrected copy available in the 20th century [if you are able to locate this 5 volume edition, check vol.5 p.123]. and even if not, those who can see a mistake corrected it.

    =====
    apart from this technical correction, the author himself in mirqat and other works attests to this aqidah.

    only the wilfully blind can stand in front of a mountain and deny its existence.

    and for those who have not seen the mountain of evidence, in sha'Allah i will present it now.
     
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  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    so in the same mirqat vol.10 p.327 under hadith #5660
    he says that: "Allah ta'ala informed him of the secrets of the universe and unseen, which no one else was given.."


    mirqat, v10p327.png
     
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  18. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    Jazak Allaahu khair
     
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i was not sniping at you. it was a general comment.

    ---
    the two clowns are immensely ignorant - juhala who are incapable of reading books. they are like those foolish trolls that swarm social media - picking up a line here or there.

    so to educate the two idiots, i will post a few more quotations of mulla ali-qari. raHimahullah.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
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  20. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Asrar Rashid will be going live on this Facebook page on Friday 7th of August at 10pm to answer the lies and distortions regarding his beliefs forwarded by Deobandi duo Usman and Abdul Haleem. This is an opportunity for the disastrous duo and those who follow them to come on the live and ask questions and show what they think is the truth. First will be the response to Usman and Abdul Haleem, after which there will be an interactive Q&A.

    https://www.facebook.com/ShAsrarRashid/
     

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