Evolution

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by Unbeknown, Jun 20, 2020.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    sorry no time - people will have to figure it out for themselves.

    In one line, all the reports about pre-Adamic earth being bereft of humans have been conveniently ignored and a new species introduced just to agree with evolutionists - and then a pairing between them is assumed to some how make modern humans "fit-in" both categories - to keep everyone happy.

    This leads to the real ancestors of not just commoners like us - but even Prophets (peace be upon them all) - turn out to be monkeys and further upstream - amoeboid creatures.

    Afterall, everything was going fine and dandy, evolution was shaping things and just when homo sapiens came about - " God suddenly injected Adam into the picture ".

    And NOW the takleef starts - why?
     
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Shaykh Asrar vs. Atheist on evolution

     
  3. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    i don't have any strong feelings either way and but can you kindly elaborate on which issues you specifically feel the doc's view contradicts the shari'ah and why.
     
  4. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail Active Member

    The evolution of the first group who are naturalists is a rational impossibility (Muhal Aqlan). You cannot have infinite series of changes in the past. You also cannot have a first event without a Specifier (Tarjih Bila Murajih).
    So those who believe that evolution in this terms are entertaining rational absurdities because they are violating the law of non-contradiction.

    As for the second group (Group A who believe that humans descended from non-human species by the will and decree of Allah) we take a different line of reasoning to refute them. Why?
    Because we cannot show in this case that "humans descending from non-human" species is a rational absurdity. The judgement of the mind concludes that this is rationally possible.

    Saying it is a rational possibility DOES NOT mean that this is something that "happened". To prove that it happened one would need evidence. For e.g the existence of a unicorn is a rational possibility. Saying it is a rational possibility doesnot mean it exists. You would need evidence to prove that it exists.

    What is the evidence of those who believe "Humans descended from non-human species by the Will of Allah?"
    They have 0 credible evidence. Nothing to prove or substantiate their claim.
    We go ahead and ask "What is the best evidence they could ever provide?"

    An experiment on a lab monkey giving a birth to a human.

    But that would still not prove that humans descended from non-human species in the past. Because it is a claim about history/past and one cannot go into the past to see/observe it. What this experiment at "most" would prove is that "humans could have descended from non-human species" NOT that "humans descended from non-human species". This does not provide certainty at all. The mind already judged that such a proposition is rationally possible. The experiment would at best show that it is "possible". So what have we gained? Nothing.

    On the other hand, we have proofs for the fact that humans DID NOT descend from non-human species based on sound rational reasoning. It comes to back to proving:
    1) That a Creator exists.
    2) Prophet Mohammad (ʿalayhi s-salām) is the messenger of Allah.
    3) Quran is the word of Allah.
    4) It is rationally impossible for a Allah to tell a lie.
    5) It is rationally impossible for a Prophet to tell a lie.

    This group A contradicts the apparant verses of the Quran,the hadith and the ijma of the scholars of the last 1400 years.


    What is the Islamic position on 'randomness'?
    If by randomness you meant an event without a prior correlating event then this is rationally possible. Allah could have willed an event without a prior correlating event e.g Quantum fluctuations.
    If by randomness you meant things coming into existence:
    1)Without a specifier. Then this is rationally impossible because it violates the law of non-contradiction.
    2) By other contingent things: Then this is rationally impossible because it leads to infinite regress.

    What is the ruling on someone believing or holding it to be possible that humans 'evolved' (developed adaptations to their specific environment such as more hair in cold climates) into their present form after they were created as mentioned in the Qur'ān, again by the Will of Allāh and not independently? That is to say, this person believes over dozens of generations in living in particular place, the people of that place begin to develop traits to help them better cope with that environment.

    Deviance of the highest degree. And Kufr.

    P.S
    1)The line of reasoning used to refute Group A is the same reasoning adopted by Shaykh Abu Adam. It is very good article and I would recommend brothers to give it a read.

    2)With regards to Group B. Again it comes down to what kind of evidence they have in support of their claims. They have no evidence to prove their claim. With regards to the ruling on Group B, I have to ask.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Shaykh Asrar on Evolution theory

     
  6. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider اللَه المقدر والعالم شؤون لا تكثر لهمك ما قدر يكون


    Interesting , the man’s confession on the issue (at 11:27) reminded me of Imam Shafi’s رضى الله عنه couplet :

    كلما أدّبني الدهر أراني نقص عقلي و كلما ازددت علما زادني علما بجهلي
     
  7. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I hope no one changes their minds about this ...

    Next thing we know, another doctor will crawl out of the woodwork and argue that Muslims can believe in infinite and eternal, multiverses, existing since pre-eternity.

    wal 'iyadu bi Allah
     
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    tl;dw

    I had posted his paper in another thread (last week).

    Does this video have a different summary to what I have gathered?
     
  9. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Interesting series of talks by various speaker. This one was an interesting perspective in evolution which may change some minds...


    https://youtu.be/9XpIz2T6Ql0
     
  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    An excellent intro to the core problems with Darwin's theory - in simple layperson terms it helps appreciate the impossibility of the origin of species via evolution.

    The second half is interesting from the societal pov - and quite revealing.



    warning: as would be expected, there are a few kufric statements/asides made by the speakers - so be careful when they touch on theology
     
  11. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    As Salāmu ʿAlaykum,

    Not a scholar myself but have studied biology at the undergraduate level. For those ʿUlama and students of knowledge wanting to address this, here are some relevant considerations for the debate at hand.

    1. Many of the evolutionary theorists are naturalists and thus believe in naturalistic evolution. What this means is that they do not believe in The Creator (ʿAzza Wa Jall) and instead believe the universe arose itself, and the living beings in it arose from random mutations over time. They believe this to be the case for humans, plants, bacteria/archaea and animals.
    2. Some people believe in evolution as being brought about by The Creator (ʿAzza Wa Jall), and in this there would be two groups:
    A. The group that believes that both humans and animals and other lifeforms on Earth arose from a common-ancestor over millions of years, that is to say they believe mankind descended from a non-human species.

    B. This group believes that humans were created as mentioned in the Qur'ān al-Karīm, but for animals and plants and other physical lifeforms, these may have been created such that over time it appears one species (of non-human physical lifeform) 'evolved' into others. They affirm that this too would be with the Will and Power of Allāh (ʿAzza Wa Jall), who is the creator of all these lifeforms.​

    It would be nice if there was a an answer to some coronary questions:
    • What is the Islamic position on 'randomness'.
    • What is the ruling on someone believing or holding it to be possible that humans 'evolved' (developed adaptations to their specific environment such as more hair in cold climates) into their present form after they were created as mentioned in the Qur'ān, again by the Will of Allāh and not independently? That is to say, this person believes over dozens of generations in living in particular place, the people of that place begin to develop traits to help them better cope with that environment.
     
    Unbeknown likes this.
  12. Mohamed Shah Qadri

    Mohamed Shah Qadri Active Member

    Can someone please send a strong refutation of the theory of evolution
     

Share This Page