That's not true, brother NJ. Even the most jaahil Muslim - even if only instictively - will feel that listening to chants of Hindu scriptures is wrong, and that Christians are not categorized as fellow believers.
as for our experiment with the Sunni society we were put under pressure via various methods until after a year we were officially closed down by the student union body due to pressure from the ISoc. (Wahabis). We then had to rename ourselves the Sufi society...
Sidi AQ, I wasn't entirely being tongue-in-cheek when I said, 'finer points of theology'. Yes,to people like us who are regular visitors to Sunniport or any other Islamic forum, what we consider a fine point of theology will be of something like Nuh Keller's arguments vis-a-vis intrinsic and extrinsic impossibilities of falsehood in relation to the Divine (etc.) but, if we look at it from the point of view of Joe Average --i.e. the majority of the under 40s (50s?) in today's Europe and parts of America (no matter what label they may have: Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Agnostic, etc..) then ANY discussion of Creed (aqidah) is delving into 'the finer points' and hence my point was, in this logic, valid. Seriously,bro, people like us who are seriously interested in these kind of discussions about what are the necessities of religion and what consitutes heresy etc. etc. are a REALLY small minority within a minority of religious people or people interested in religion. Except for academics specialising in these areas in Divinity departments not many Westerners -- the audience TuQ was targeting in this speech--would have been of the sort for whom any discussion of religion is passé--let alone such intricate matters (which for you might be obvious.) -- you can either believe me or think it is just more sophistry from me. that's your choice. i'm a Sunni Muslim and i have my own beliefs which haven't changed in their fundamentals my whole life but how I look at and percieve others has definitely changed. You probably think I'm a liberal-Sufisticated hippy or something now!
so-called Sunnhi ("Sufi") Scholars Damaging Sunnhi Islam and Sufism "Dr. Tahirul Qadri" and Shaykh Hisham Kabbani are actually doing the most damage to Sunnhi Islam and Sufism by pulling the stunts that they pull like lecturing to USA policy makers about Jihad and Wahhabism. In fact they're playing into the hands of "Salafi" (Wahabi) critics who citing the RAND Report say that the West is now funding Sufism and trying to extinguish real Islam (Qutbist-Wahabism i.e. "jihadist-Salafism"). The irony of this is that Wahabism is only around 300 years old, please see "Fitnatul Wahhabiyah" by Shaykhul Islam Mawlana Ahmad bin Zayni Dahlanal-Makki ash-Shafi'i R.A.(Chief Mufti of Makkah al-Mukarramah prior to British colonisation ofIslamic Ottoman Empire): Part 1: Background on the Tribulations of the Wahabis: http://www.nooremadinah.net/Documents/Misc/TribulationsOfTheWahhabis/TribulationsOfTheWahhabis.asp Part 2: History of the Muslims Fighting with the Wahabiyah as they Emerged: http://www.nooremadinah.net/Documen...abiyyah/MuslimsFightingWithTheWahhabiyyah.asp A year or 2 ago in a debate with a colleague I bended over backwards to defend Kabbani's stunts just because he is one of ours (i.e. a Sunnhi Shaykh). Now I deeply regret this because the person I was debating with although he had Wahabi Aqidah, he had a valid point that because Kabbani hangs out with Bush and other terrorists like Blair, etc. Kabbani is a charlatone. Its our duty to be the first and the harshest of critics when our own scholars* go astray. May Allah save us and our scholars from every deviation through the Intercession of Nabi SallAllahu 'Alayhi Wasallam! Kabbani hangs out with George Bush and Tony Blair and advertises this proudly on his website: http://www.sunnah.org/about/shaykh_muhammad_hisham_kabbani.htm There was a picture of Kabbani posing with Bush and it was on the Islamic Supreme Council website. I believe it was Hazrat Nizamudin Awliyah R.A. that when the ruler of the time (who was a Muslim) entered his Khanqah through the front door he would leave through the back door. "Dr. Tahirul Qadri" spoke on Jihad at Georgetown University in Washington DC. He addressed "an audience which included US-government officials, cadets from US army, Navy and Air Force": http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/1...t-Georgetown-University-in-Washington-DC.html "Dr. Tahirul Qadri" also spoke at the US Institute of Peace: http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/1...United-States-Institute-of-Peace-American.htm behshaq (without doubt)! Superb analysis! The irony with all the Wahabis like OBL (Osama) who are criticising the Saudi Kingdom is that once upon a time the very same Saudi Kingdom funded OBL and influenced their curriculum making them Wahabi! PLEASE READ: 9/11 ANALYSIS: From Ronald Reagan and the Soviet-Afghan War to George W Bush and September 11, 2001 by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20958 *Not that "Dr. Tahirul Qadri" is a Sunnhi scholar, please see: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?p=37816
the kind of extremism tahir is not against http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16187397 him and his ilk only have husn az-zdhann and look for excuses for anyone except Muslims i don't know if this lad is wahabi, but he said the truth (albeit using colorful language of course). here's what he said: sure, he's mixed religion and politics a bit (a big no-no for all colonial subjects), but he is essentially raising a voice against injustice committed by saab (if seen purely from a "democratic" perspective). how many saab's make these kind of comments and mock the deaths of Muslims? has anyone here seen their comments on facebook at the murder of those 15 or 16 Afghans, with what 8 or 9 children? how many arrests were made on those comments? what ever happened to their "freedom of speech" with this Muslim kid?
nj, you either love playing devil's advocate or you have a mischievous heart. i'm sorry but after noticing so many of your posts, it looks like more than just confusion. if you would have said "finer points" about keller's infamous "not intrinsically possible" some credence might have been given to you, but what qardinul has violated are not "finer points" but rather he has taken a stab at the very heart of MUSLIM (not just Sunni) 3aqaid. ithna 3ashari books too that say that calling christians and jews as "believers" or their religions "truthful" takes one outside of Islam. calling it "finer points" is either tongue in cheek at the qardinul himself, or a real slick deobandi, wahabi style slick diplomatic line to implicitly defend and get major violation and mockery of deen justified in the name of "difference of opinion of scholars" Allah knows your intentions. i don't. perhaps it was just a passing comment and nothing more; but that choice of words simply sends very wrong subliminal messages. secondly, NEITHER is he spot on on this topic as well NOR are you being "fair" he is just using the name of sufism like his other partners in crime i don't doubt for a second and have first hand experience that campus Muslim societies in the west are indeed dominated by the wahabis - sure BUT qardinul says: is EVERY wahabi a terrorist? sure they don't tolerate what they believe to be "shirk" and "bid3ah" as concepts/actions and preach against it but where have they not tolerated people in general or taught people to blow up buildings or become suicide bombers? they have an ideology and in "fairness" to them, however bizarre and warped it may be, they have ghayrah. their "intolerance" or "shirk" and "bid3ah" comes from this warped ghayrah of theirs that's no more different than the nationalism and patriotism of the kafir students for their countries. qardinul says: that's pure rubbish. qardinul mentions 25 years. 11 of those years now have been POST-911. the entire official and wahabi world too has been condemning osama and bakri and taliban since then, and even before these 11 years, their preaching was a mishmash of various different wahabi sources not these guys. (let's be "fair" to osama too for what it's worth. how much evidence have we really seen that says he did 911? how much evidence have we seen for the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?... but anyway, let's just leave the boogeyman aside and talk about only what qardinul mentions) so yeah, where in the PRE-911 and where in the POST-911 part of the last 25 years have the Muslim student societies run by wahabis preached terrorism on western campuses? they were doing it so openly all that time for 25 years and yet the western intel agencies never nabbed any of them? in fact the madkhalis, the "official" ones of the wahabis, are just almost as dutiful to the west as a lot of the "sufis" and "minhajis" notwithstanding the fact that the wahabis have been even actively erasing parts of proper wahabi history like the massacres at Taif and Makkah and Madinah, saying that their top dog was a man of 'peace and democracy and never made halal the blood of any Muslim' and against the actions of these khawarij (bin laden, awlaki, et al). isn't it sweet irony that a subset of a group of khawarij calls another subset of the same group as khawarij! qardinul says: frankly speaking, that's a cheap shot even if at the wahabi idiots, and it's nothing more than advertising his own movement. that's all it is! and here i'm being "fair" and fighting the argument just what feelings are they exploiting? those poor wahabi idiots, in their own way, have also been trying to "build bridges" and do as much damage control for the Muslim community as possible, just as much as the Sunnis. if anyone has been "mixing political issues with religious ones" to use his own phrase, it's the Islamophobic kuffaar, not wahabis not Sunnis; but tahir doesn't have the courage to say that indeed! you said: sure, the wahabis are notorious for underhanded tactics at taking over Sunni mosques, orgs, publishing houses etc. and i don't have any doubts they would have tried that to grab your members and audiences too, but i don't think that in ANY western university any one group of students, Sunni or shia or wahabi or tennis enthusiasts or literature clubs or hockey clubs, are ever forbidden from having their own clubs and doing their own activities. in almost all major unis, the shias always have their own student clubs, at least the one's i've seen and read about and whose fault is that? if we had Sunni students who know their 3aqidah well and are just as enthusiastic and have just as much ghayrah and drive for Sunnism as the wahabis and shias have for their maslaks, we wouldn't be in such dire straits (student societies or anywhere)! mostly "Sunnis" are busy thinking Sunnism and Sufism are about karaamaat of flying carpets and magic lamps, something straight out of The Arabian Nights. i can show you a 1000 wahabis on these campuses who can keep you occupied for a 2 hour presentation on the najdi's kitab at-tawheed. how many "Sunnis" can you show me who can just as lucidly explain the Sanusiyyah to their colleagues? and now we have qardinul's and hanson's style of "Sunnism" and interfaith nonsense flourishing on campuses too! it's pure rubbish as usual, and caters to a popularly oriental and colonialist mindset and the current fashion trends of wahabi-bashing followed by saab and mem saab saab and mem saab do it for different reasons and with different agendas. don't think i have a soft spot for wahabis. in any case were you switched on about saab's agenda's you would have seen that taking a dig at "wahabism" is in reality taking a dig at anything remotely islamic, things like 5 daily prayers, niqab etc. are seen as specific to "wahabism" now; while anything that panders to stroking saab's ego is seen as "sufism", things like chanting "we will remember the love of krishna"
to be fair--and whatever other wrong things TuQ might say on the finer points of theology--what he says in this article is spot on: in the UK at least student societies are dominated by Wahabis/salafis/hizb ut tahrir-types and Sunni students are not really represented. When my friends and I set up a rival Sunni Society at one university the terrorist-party (i.e.wahabis) fought us tooth and nail. These people prey on innocent Muslim students who don't know much about aqidah... Remember, refute the arguments not the man. In this article there is nothing controversial that i can see..
Israeli Terrorism In South Africa the Jewish students organisations at campuses are all Zionist and are 500% behind the illegitimate entity of "Israel". They bend over backwards to defend the entity's every single massacre of Palestinians painting every act of Israeli terrorism as a legitimate act of self defence. Please visit: www.StopTheWall.org www.IfAmericansKnew.com www.PalestineRemembered.com
