Fadak and khatā

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Aqdas, Jun 15, 2020.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what is the ruling on someone who says that: "a prophet committed a sin"

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    here is a starter from nibras (hashiyah of sharh al-aqa'id).

    nibras, p605.png
     
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    how many of these people attacking asif jalali sahib take exception to the insults by wahabis deobandis? or do they hang around as buddies and swallow the ta'wils and in general act as if nothing happened? those who do not are the worst kind of munafiqin who make a racket about insult to sayyidah faTimah raDiyAllahu anha, but are unconcerned about insult towards her father SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    who is this guy? is he sunni or rafidi? why is he saying salwatullahi alayha with sayyidah faTimah raDiyAllahu anha? if he is a rafiDi, i don't want to bother. let him first become a muslim aur phir baat karenge.

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    only prophets are ma'Sum. and only insult to prophets is kufr.

    while insults to SaHabah is deplorable, it is not kufr. some ulama said disrespecting the 4 khulafa as kufr (as in fiqh works) but that is deemed a fiqhi opinion. regardless, we MUST respect all SaHabah - including hazrat mu'awiyah raDiyAllahu anhu and others whom tafzilis/rawafid (khadhalahum-Allah) love to revile.

    however attributing 'khata'/error to SaHabah is NOT an insult. even anbiya have been attributed with khaTa and nobody called them kafir.
    even those who attributed sins to prophets were not ruled apostates, even though their position was repudiated.

    yet, here are people calling for takfir for "insulting" a non-prophet, with due respect to her high rank and stature - salawatullahi `ala abihaa wa alayhaa. [peace and blessings upon her father, and also upon her]

    this means either of the two:

    - that non-prophets are also ma'Sum from khaTa; this is the belief of rafizis. let the closet-rafiDis acknowledge this and spare sunnis.

    - that sayyidah faTimah raDiyAllahu anha is a prophet (al-iyadhu billah) and hence she is ma'Sum from khaTa.​

    which of the above two is preferred by the 'angry' folk? if there is a position between these two, please explain.


    ===
    as for the language employed by ashraf jalali sahib - whether it was justified or not, is a matter of adab and opinions differ on this.

    also the guy (in the video in first post) who appears to be a rafidi and he is upfront about his rage. that some (probably) rafidi woman made a baseless allegation on TV, and was roundly refuted by sunni ulama. now the rafiDis have found a space to enroll rafiDi-sympathisers in sunni garb and go after jalali sahib.

    the other video by an ashrafi aalim is measured and reasonable response.

    wAllahu a'alam.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is getting more and more weird. this maulvi sahib has no knowledge about kufr and takfir.
    either jahalat or he is influenced by rafizis.

    i sincerely advise this maulvi sahib to go and read some books.

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  4. Yaseen

    Yaseen Active Member

    Fatwa declaring dr Jalali a kafir unless he repents. From 44 minutes onwards.

     
  5. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Screenshots of the quotes presented in this video
     

    Attached Files:

  6. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Pir mehr ali shah writes that ahl e bayt are NOT ma'soom. They can commit sin.

    If Hazrat Fatima made khata ijtihadi - and we know that khata ijtihadi does not entail sin but reward - then why was the work of Pir Mehr Ali even mentioned. The istidlal by the speaker seems incorrect.
     
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Hanif Qureshi says sahabah committed sins.

     
  8. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    I've been seeing Molwis like Barkat Ahmad Chisti and Farooq Chisti attack Jalali sahib and try to say he is out of Ahlus Sunna. Whereas these molwi sahiban themselves are Tafzilis and supporters of the gustakh of Hazrat Amir Muawiya radhiallahu anhu



    These idiots are just that - idiots.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  9. Tālib ul-Haq

    Tālib ul-Haq New Member

  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I haven't watched this but this is Dr Asif's response

     
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Allamah Ghulam Rasul Saeedi

    IMG-20200616-WA0033.jpg IMG-20200616-WA0034.jpg
     
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  12. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    I have changed my opinion -I say Allama Jalali has not done gustakhi but it is better for him to do ruju`
     
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I've watched just the one clip posted by sidi Aqdas, and listening to that clip alone and not the preceding discussion, it does sound in a very bad taste - not the words themselves but the manner (as if he was looking for some "khata" to prove some point)

    and as brother AQ said, people are already primed towards taking any disagreement as "gustakhi"

    given such an environment, jalaali sahib should've been cautions with his words and tone.
     
  14. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    No.
     
  15. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    Does the word khatā by itself imply ghustakh when used for non-masūm creation?
     
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  16. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    Kanzul Ulama Hadrat Allamah Jalali has had some backlash on this issue. Allamah Jalali did not do gustakhi otherwise we'd have to go after Mawlana Ghulam Rasul Sa`idi for basically saying the same thing. See here:
    upload_2020-6-15_17-50-41.png

    But perhaps the words Allamah Jalali used could have been better chosen (thus the backlash) and thus the need for wazahat. However, a shari` ruju and tawbah is not really needed IMHO.

    Mawlana Qasim Zia al Qadiri's answer:
     
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Ashraf Asif sahib released this video yesterday wherein he showed the passage of Sayyid Mihr Ali Shah sahib rahimahullah's book with the word khata in it.

    he said his critics have 24 hours to seriously explain in their own words the passage authored by Mihr Ali Shah sahib and how what he said is any different.



    if anyone knows of any video released today, please share (as he said, after a 24 hour wait, he will himself take those critics to task in light of the words of Mihr Ali Shah sahib and other Sunni scholars)

    all in all, this fiasco is the result of Sunnis giving leeway to jahil naatkhwans and pirs who are full on rafidis or tafdilis. this is what happens when the stage and the microphone are handed over to just any Sunni-pretender! let this be a lesson to all of us - to firstly learn the aqidah and usul of Sunniyat ourselves, and then to teach it to those around us, and to never compromise or show leniency to anyone who deviates from this even 1%, otherwise our children if not us will be the victims of such emotional blackmails from the hidden enemies of Sunnis

    he is right that it's a sad state of affairs when people (scholars and muftis) who call themselves Sunnis, don't know the abc's of Sunniyat and are working towards the agenda of the rafidis
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Mufti Asif Jalali's actual words and some man trying to refute:



    Some Sunnis asking for ruju:

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020

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