Fadak and khatā

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Aqdas, Jun 15, 2020.

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  1. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag New Member

  2. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    The cause of the (planned) arrest is apparently to derail the conference that is due to take place in Peshawar today. That is why they wanted to arrest Ameeni sahib too.

    My guess is probably because they will speak on the Khalid Khan issue because he is from Peshawar. The establishment don't want another Mumtaz Qadri like movement.
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    It seems day before yesterday there was a peaceful protest.

    Yesterday for some reason (day after the peaceful protest) the establishment tries to arrest Khadim Hussain Rizvi sahab, but they couldn't due to the strong crowd numbers present around his mosque.

    Right now Khadim Hussain sahab is in an undisclosed location. NOT under arrest.

    The establishment neither has an FIR against him nor an arrest warrant. They want to arrest him just for kicks!

    That's the word on the street in Pak.
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    That's what the caption says. It could be an arrest attempt too, but the video is from today afaik, not yesterday when they surrounded his mosque. Allahu a3lam. Let's ask And update.
  5. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    Are you sure Rizvi Sahib has been arrested because I heard that the police as of yet have been unable to arrest him.
  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Khadim Hussain sahab was arrested this morning

    Count the amount of cop cars and bikes of Lahore police's "elite" dolphin force that they used to restrain just 1 old man in a wheelchair!

    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  7. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    @AbdalQadir: I think pir Ghufran Syalwi was right. These are political moves with the intention of decimating the Sunni bank vote. Just a shame that our akabir just keep squabbling amongst themselves.
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Shafiq Amini sahab has been arrested too and police has cordoned off Khadim Hussain sahab's masjid.

    I think this is some deep rooted rafidi plot, and Irfan Shah just did a major injustice to his own soul by being used as a tool of the Rawafid. Jalali and Khadim Hussain would have been targeted regardless of what they did or didn't say about Fadak. Just my opinion.

  9. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I too wanted to post this, but decided against it, as these Rawafid will have more room to duck and dive with another topic introduced. They're incapable of understanding comparisons and like all Ahlul bid3ah don't know what evidence is
  11. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider اللَه المقدر والعالم شؤون لا تكثر لهمك ما قدر يكون

    I know it's not exactly relevant, but since these neo-tafzilis, have opened this can of worms, I'd like to know , since "they don't ascribe "khata -e-ijtihadi" to Ahlul Bayt, particularly Sayyidah Nisa e Jannah (May Allah be pleased with her) , how are these Tafzlilis to reconcile the incident which gave Sayyiduna Ali one of his favorite nickname's (Abu Turab):

    حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو حَازِمٍ، عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، قَالَ إِنْ كَانَتْ أَحَبَّ أَسْمَاءِ عَلِيٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ إِلَيْهِ لأَبُو تُرَابٍ، وَإِنْ كَانَ لَيَفْرَحُ أَنْ يُدْعَى بِهَا، وَمَا سَمَّاهُ أَبُو تُرَابٍ إِلاَّ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَاضَبَ يَوْمًا فَاطِمَةَ فَخَرَجَ فَاضْطَجَعَ إِلَى الْجِدَارِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ، فَجَاءَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَتْبَعُهُ، فَقَالَ هُوَ ذَا مُضْطَجِعٌ فِي الْجِدَارِ فَجَاءَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَامْتَلأَ ظَهْرُهُ تُرَابًا، فَجَعَلَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَمْسَحُ التُّرَابَ عَنْ ظَهْرِهِ يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ اجْلِسْ يَا أَبَا تُرَابٍ ‏"‏‏.

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6204
    In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 228
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 223

    حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ أَبِي حَازِمٍ - عَنْ أَبِي، حَازِمٍ عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، قَالَ اسْتُعْمِلَ عَلَى الْمَدِينَةِ رَجُلٌ مِنْ آلِ مَرْوَانَ - قَالَ - فَدَعَا سَهْلَ بْنَ سَعْدٍ فَأَمَرَهُ أَنْ يَشْتِمَ عَلِيًّا - قَالَ - فَأَبَى سَهْلٌ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَمَّا إِذْ أَبَيْتَ فَقُلْ لَعَنَ اللَّهُ أَبَا التُّرَابِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ سَهْلٌ مَا كَانَ لِعَلِيٍّ اسْمٌ أَحَبَّ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ أَبِي التُّرَابِ وَإِنْ كَانَ لَيَفْرَحُ إِذَا دُعِيَ بِهَا ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَخْبِرْنَا عَنْ قِصَّتِهِ لِمَ سُمِّيَ أَبَا تُرَابٍ قَالَ جَاءَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَيْتَ فَاطِمَةَ فَلَمْ يَجِدْ عَلِيًّا فِي الْبَيْتِ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ أَيْنَ ابْنُ عَمِّكِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَتْ كَانَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ شَىْءٌ فَغَاضَبَنِي فَخَرَجَ فَلَمْ يَقِلْ عِنْدِي فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لإِنْسَانٍ ‏"‏ انْظُرْ أَيْنَ هُوَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَجَاءَ فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هُوَ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ رَاقِدٌ ‏.‏ فَجَاءَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَهُوَ مُضْطَجِعٌ قَدْ سَقَطَ رِدَاؤُهُ عَنْ شِقِّهِ فَأَصَابَهُ تُرَابٌ فَجَعَلَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَمْسَحُهُ عَنْهُ وَيَقُولُ ‏"‏ قُمْ أَبَا التُّرَابِ قُمْ أَبَا التُّرَابِ ‏"‏ ‏.

    I mean if Khata-e-ijtihadi can never occur (according to these tafzlilis, or Mahfooz is to be understood as the same as Ma'soom) how does one "EXPLAIN," this incident , by the way there is no way out for these tafzilis, because If they take Sayyidatul Nisa al Jannah's side then where does that Leave Sayyiduna Ali, and vice versa.

    Reference : Sahih Muslim 2409
    In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 59
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5924

    The only escape for these tafzilis is to reject the two hadithayn (like the SHIA blatantly do).
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2020
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  12. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    A good explanation

  13. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    Reply followed by a counter reply, and the issue continues to grow. It's time for the senior scholars to give their stance and come up with a solution. It's not like Jalali Sahib or Syed Irfan Shah's moaqif is hidden or not clear to understand. They don't need to present their case, just gather 4-5 senior scholars and let them decide. It's time to put Sunniyat first.
  14. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Well-Known Member

    The latest from Mufti Zahid Jalali sahib
  15. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    I hope Shah Sahib will reflect on what they are doing and rethink their stance. If not then the ulema and sunni public should shun them because they are weakening the principles and like @Noori said, the way of our elders. In Pakistan in a few places, the public have stopped them from doing conferences. It should be the same here too because playing with the emotions of the public and misrepresenting sunni principles to them is extremely harmful.

    However, like I said, I hope the senior scholars do get in Shah sahib's ear and get them to modify their stance. All is not lost.
  16. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Irfan shah sahab has decided to reject everything our elders have written and explained, and present a new set of principles so that he can defend his faulty fatwa and badmouthing.
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    patience. i am suddenly inundated with work (dunyawi work) in the past 3-4 days. in sha'Allah, we will look at nabeel's hadith fahmi and also clarify concepts and knock some sense in idiotic 'reasoning'.
    abu Usman likes this.
  18. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    Brothers could you shed light on this. I think we touched on this before but it's the evidence they use to suggest that the request for Bagh e fadak did not happen.

    @abu Hasan: What's the reality of this?

    Attached Files:

  19. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I think now, that Mawlana Jalali would have been arrested regardless, on any dubious charge.

    It just so happened that this khata-story happened, but it looks like there's a lot more at play here. Opportunistic peerzadas might have clung to this event to run their shops, but it seems something else is at play too - seriously so.

    Just my thoughts. Allah knows best.

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