Fadak and khatā

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Aqdas, Jun 15, 2020.

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  1. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    I hope Shah Sahib will reflect on what they are doing and rethink their stance. If not then the ulema and sunni public should shun them because they are weakening the principles and like @Noori said, the way of our elders. In Pakistan in a few places, the public have stopped them from doing conferences. It should be the same here too because playing with the emotions of the public and misrepresenting sunni principles to them is extremely harmful.

    However, like I said, I hope the senior scholars do get in Shah sahib's ear and get them to modify their stance. All is not lost.
     
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Irfan shah sahab has decided to reject everything our elders have written and explained, and present a new set of principles so that he can defend his faulty fatwa and badmouthing.
     
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    patience. i am suddenly inundated with work (dunyawi work) in the past 3-4 days. in sha'Allah, we will look at nabeel's hadith fahmi and also clarify concepts and knock some sense in idiotic 'reasoning'.
     
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  4. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    Brothers could you shed light on this. I think we touched on this before but it's the evidence they use to suggest that the request for Bagh e fadak did not happen.

    @abu Hasan: What's the reality of this?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I think now, that Mawlana Jalali would have been arrested regardless, on any dubious charge.

    It just so happened that this khata-story happened, but it looks like there's a lot more at play here. Opportunistic peerzadas might have clung to this event to run their shops, but it seems something else is at play too - seriously so.

    Just my thoughts. Allah knows best.
     
  7. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    I was wondering the same thing, is Pakistan seeking closer ties to Iran? One thing is clear is that the Rafzis have a strong lobby in Pakistan. Our scholars need to unite and speak out or otherwise there are very much dark times ahead.
     
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I've said it umpteen times in umpteen places.

    What exactly are the Darul Ulooms and Darul Iftas doing? Abdulhaq sahab of Amjadiya for instance, and other senior muftis like him?

    If we criticize the muftis to be complicit with the jahil peers and naatkhwans and just greedy for nazranas and fat envelopes, they'll give us a good ear bashing. But in situations like this the awam is expected to look the other way and whistle!

    Shameful!

    One thing I was wondering is if this is indeed a government supported psyop to somehow make Pakistan strategically Shia leaning due to their recent fallout with the khaleejis.
     
  9. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    Things are getting ridiculous in Pakistan. Qari Zawar who has been leading the campaign for Jalali Sahib's release has been arrested today after the protest. The shias who have threatened to destroy sunni idaras and open gustakhi of Sahaba are not just walking free but 'assisting' in the case against Jalali Sahib. Disgraceful and shame on those scholars who spoke out against Jalali sahib are quiet now.
     
  10. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    @Paradise Seeker. Do you have the clip of their reply? It was forwarded to me via Whatsup but I can't upload it here because it is too big.

    They have got the blinkers on and just blind following their Shaykh. However, even in Pakistan the tide is turning, the scholars are starting to speak out against Shah Sahib. I just hope Shah Sahib just puts an end to this charade because it does not look, it is going to end well for them.
     
  11. Paradise Seeker

    Paradise Seeker Active Member

    I got removed from Syed Irfan Shah's Facebook page and my comment deleted regarding this clip. These people don't care about the truth.
     
  12. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    The reply from Syed Irfan Shah's group about the clip about Sayida Aisha that they say has been cropped. I can't seem to upload the video but the gist is that Shah Sahib just quoted Sayida Aisha's words and in the missing part Shah Sahib mentions that this is a ijtihadi khata and we have no right to criticise it.
    Their main point was that this khata Ijtihadi was explicitly mentioned by Sayida Aisha and other companions. The word 'khata' was never used by Sayida Fatima or any of the companions in regards to the fadak issue.

    I think they have missed the point and this 'clarification' is just to appease their supporters.
     
  13. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    The height of idiocy and opression of the so called 'independent' judiciary dealing with Jalali Sahib's case is according to some Shia sources that the lawyer who caused this issue in the first place was influential in getting Jalali Sahib's bail rejected.

    I say some Shia sources because they are fighting amongst themselves in terms of who is the 'true' defender of the Ahl ul Bayt and the 'wakeel' for Sayida Fatima.

    In light of this, any 'independent' judge would throw this case out. The general feeling is that Jalali Sahib will be released post muharram. However, that does not take away from the fact that an innocent scholar and politican has been arrested in a country that wants to present itself as 'democratic'.
     
  14. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag New Member

  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Who from Irfan Shah's troupe called Muhaddithe kabir and Asjad Raza saab as fatwa farosh? Any links?
     
  16. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Well-Known Member


    Never been a fan but props to him for sincerely explaining everything.
     
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  17. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Never mind my cheap shot. I'm genuinely sorry for that.

    I don't think, in the absence of a mass action, Dr Jalali is going to be freed anytime soon. As Mawlana Gufran Siyalwi alluded, there is hidden agenda and invisible hand (of establishment/military) to cut him to size. Only a sustained mass movement will wake them up.
     
  18. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Well-Known Member

    @sherkhan... I have been naive about the situation, as I thought that Jalali would get his time in court. I said this because Jalali sahib himself said he wanted his time in the Supreme Court to debate and refute his opponents.

    The Deobandis would never help Jalali sahib but I thought Allama Khadim Hussain would be more forthcoming. Political differences can be put aside to safeguard our principles. Mufti Muneeb ur Rahman again should be doing more but it looks like these big sunni organisations are only useful in name only.

    one thing our scholars lack is foresight to see that either refuting or staying silent on the Jalali Sahib issue, the shias are benefitting.

    I thought Syed Irfan Shah would finally see sense and drag the other syeds back onto the Aqeeds of their Burzugs. That is what I was waiting for However, it seems like a marriage of convenience with the mutual interest of sidelining Jalali sahib.

    like I said @sherkhan I've been naive in this regard. The political element should reveal itself in due course but I am not even going to hazard a guess.
     
  19. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Active Member

    True.
    not to defend them, but to be fair, they did speak up when Allamah Khadim Hussain Rizvi was jailed. And they supported his dharna in support of Khatme-nubuwwat.
    but it could also be that Allamah Jalali sahib openly challenged the deobandis (specifically Taqi Usmani) to a debate on Hussam-Al-Haramayn, so they dislike him more so, for that.
    whereas, Allamah Khadim Hussain hasnt ever directly criticized the deobandis in his bayans, (as far as i know, at least).
    Wallahu Alam.
     
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    devbandis stand for nothing. agreed, they could not stand up for a 'barelwi' scholar.
    but they could have refuted the rafidis and their sympathisers?

    cowards, who will only speak up if their maulvis are refuted.

    ---
    clearly it is only those who stick to the maslak of alahazrat will speak up for the right and speak the truth.

    wa lillahi'l Hamd.
     
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