First of all, let me know who humiliates the ulama here? And, second thing is that, if you wish to call Yazid, a kafir, then you are free to do it. And, third thing I am repeating my reference of Ala Hazrat's book again below: It is mentioned in Qadi Iyad's Shifa, Imam Nawawi's Rawda and Imam Ibn Hajar Makki's A'lam that, "It has been unanimously declared by the Ulama of Islam that whoever is not saying kafir to that person who is a Christian or a Jew or the person with the religion other than Islam, or he has a doubt, or he remain silent on saying him a kafir, is a kafir too". Answer to Question no. 2 in Fatawa al Harmain bi Rajf Nadwat-ul-Main Written by: Mujaddid e Din-o-Millat, Ala Hazrat, Shah Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Faadhil-e-Barelwi (RadiAllahu Ta'ala Anhu) As you notice the word "unanimously" in above mentioned reference then you might not be confused. There is already an ijma of the scholars upon such person to call a kafir, who is not saying karfir to that person who is Christian or a Jew or the person with the religion other than Islam, or he has a doubt, or he remain silent on saying him a kafir. And, I am saying that whoever does not accept the fatawa of Taajush Shariah denies not only Ala Hazrat, but he also denies Qadi Iyad, Imam Nawawi and Imam Ibn Hajar Makki. And, if you are saying it extreme then show Fatawa al Harmain bi Rajf Nadwat-ul-Main to any Mufti or Alim. He will give you same conclusion after reading it. Because, Taajush Shariah gave fatawa of kufr on the same condition, which Ala Hazrat has mentioned in his book Fatawa al Harmain bi Rajf Nadwat-ul-Main. And, Fatawa al Harmain bi Rajf Nadwat-ul-Main is the book, which was highly welcomed and accepted by the ualam of Harmain Sharifain, who belongs to different madhhabs of the fiqh. Again I am asking to you that if you have any strong evidence against my reference to not call him a kafir, then give it. I hope this time you are clear.
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم Still failed to answer the question........i suggest you follow your own advice
Brother imran and the rest, i never said taajshariah is wrong, all im saying is that respect the ulama who dont call him kafir, but call him gumrah. And the yazid issue fits in perfectly because he claimed haraam is halal, which is kufr. Prime example alchol.
I'm well aware of mufti saab. I think they also issued a fatwa on shahrukh khan. Ive also seen mufti saab in action in a munazara. I'm well aware they learnt their fatwa writing skills directly from Mufti Azam e Hind and are considered one of the best muzazirs in India. It was merely a question if they were aware of what has happened.
This mufti sahab is no ordinary mufti sahab of India. You may like to know about him through your sources. He knows the fatwa upon Tahirul Qadri from Tajush shariah. I think we need to get testimony of at least 2 Muslims who attended that Wembley conference ( and later did tawba for this act) that Tahirul Qadri said ll those kufriya statements (one being : ( nauzbillah) may the fragrance of all religion remain on this earth) and other kufriya acts and words. This can be done by those sunni brothers who live in UK. This will be very helpful in future. I have dealt with Tahir's case with his supporters ( some of them are maulvis in Jamia Nizamia, Hyd) and some point or the other, they bring the issue of ' video being' sharii evidence near those who call it na jayaz and voice on recording etc, issues. I consider Tahir to be a bigger danger to Islam than Wahhabis.
Like youve never done that before How long ago was this? Is it possible that mufti saab is not aware of TuQs antics e.g. the Wembley conference?
snaqshi show me anywhere I have called anyone spineless on the entire forum let alone this thread. And also tell me did you even care to read my last three posts on this thread? Seriously . . .
Mufti Motiur rehman Rizvi of India has openly said that he does not consider Tahirul Qadri to be a Kafir. He is around 70 years old, a student and khalifah of Mufti e Aazam Hind. He is a pass out from Manzar al Islam , Bareilly . He is neither an Attari nor a Misbahi. He learnt the knowledge and skill of issuing fatwa directly from Mufti e Aazam Hind. Those who insist that such and such individual must issue such and such fatwa, should contact Mufti Motiur rehman Rizvi and let me know what will be the ruling upon him. I consider many statements said by Tahirul Qadri to be Kufr and do not consider him a sunni.
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم This question is specifically for brother unbeknown, "if you own personal thought is that anyone who does not make takfir on Dr Padri is spineless (in your opinion), what you going to say about Mufti Azam Pakistan Mufti Ashraful Qadiri sahib, that he is spineless?" Astagfirollah azeemi wa atoubu ilayh!!! I note your absence in answering the question....
hmm, but is there any Ahle Sunnah Mufti who says that the fatwas of outright Kufr & riddah are WRONG?? there are many who don't have the guts to openly call him a murtadd, but they KNOW. this has got nothing to do with Razaviyyat or the Ulema of Bareilly being strict in their stance: here is a man (Dr Tahir Jhangvi) calling people to commit shirk, and the people who read Kalema Tawheed are still wondering about his faith??? If someone needs a mufti to tell him that this is kufr, then the guy is in serious trouble himself. when did yazeed commit open shirk or call Christians "ahle Imaan"??. However despicable the tyrants deeds may have been, he never said committing shirk was"jaez". BTW, FYI, Imam e Aadham also never said that other Imams were wrong, and nor did he ever say "do not call him a Kaafir". In fact the OPPOSITE is true: if someone called Yazeed a Kaafir, he never stopped them. I repeat what I said earlier: we do not need NEW fatwas from every corner of the world to prove what has already been proven: but yes, we need the Ulema to ratify what has been proven and openly condemn the murtadd. (just the same way we do not ask NEW fatwas on the deobandi murtadds)
First let me know what is the difference between Taajush Shariah's Fatawa and Ala Hazrat's Fatawa? Taajush Shariah gave fatawa on the condition which Ala Hazrat gave. Tahir Jhangvi called Christians and Jews are Ahl-e-Iman, and Ala Hazrat gave fatawa on the basis of the statements of previous pious scholars that whoever is not saying kafir to them is a kafir. I know that Imam e Azam did not takfeer of Yazeed Palith. And, I also know that do not stop the one who is calling a kafir to Yazid Palith. But, did Yazeed said that Christians and Jews are Ahl-e-Iman? And, are we discussing here about Yazeed or Tahir Jhangvi. Don't mix the issues. And, I gave reference of Ala Hazrat's book. If you have any evidence for not calling him a kafir, then give it. And, one more thing, I am not putting fatawa on anyone, I just gave you the reference of Ala Hazrat's book. I also advise you to be relax and don't put unnecessary questions here.
Listen brother imran relax, there are many ulama who dont call him kafir, one thing is that it is unanimous that he is gumrah. Now you turning around saying anyone who doesnt accept the fatwa of taajushariah he is denying ala hazrat is extreme. Listen imam ahmed did takfir clear cut of yazid paleeth, but imam al adham didnt, does that mean imam al adham is wrong. No. Everyone is unanimous that he is gumrah, the ulama will inshaallah come to an agreement soon. Dont put fatwa on ulamas, relax yourself.
brother snaqshi, ma sha Allah at your reading, writing and comprehension. your post has shown me the errors of my ways in assuming that people who opt to participate in a text-based online forum would at least fulfill the basic requirement of reading, writing (typing) and comprehending textual content. please accept this gold star as a token of my appreciation.
i have already replied to the 'spineless' comment eventhough there was no need to in the first place but you seem to have difficulty reading and comprehending things and a penchant for arguing without occassion and to think you were advising sidi abu Hasan to adjust his glasses, you yourself seem to have misplaced yours for quite some time now. Besides it is apparent that you do not understand simple english or you wouldn't have been harping about that line. As for pir karam shah, I don't know much about him and issues surrounding him except for a particular 2hr video. But the very fact that you brought him up shows that you again failed to understand a simple point. You can keep beating around the bush until the mods get tired of you. I am done with this thread.
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم Brother unbeknown you seem to assume a lot? please show me where i said maulana ilyas qadir said it i was referring to the dar ul ifta fatawa not the words of maulana sahib perse, so stop chatting buingle! I see to did not answer or reply to: (3) Brother Unbeknown maybe you should consider in your long list the case of Pir Sayyed Karem Shah sahib? what are you going to say about him and his writings? and whilst your working that out What are you going to say about the ulema who were his contempories that did not issue fatawa against him or what he wrote? This question is specifically for brother unbeknown, "if you own personal thought is that anyone who does not make takfir on Dr Padri is spineless (in your opinion), what you going to say about Mufti Azam Pakistan Mufti Ashraful Qadiri sahib, that he is spineless?" Astagfirollah azeemi wa atoubu ilayh!!! why don't you reply to the above? Bother abdul qadir neither am i confused or do I not have a good perspective of things, please show me where there is an ijma3 amongst the ulema of ahle sunnat regarding Dr Padri sahib in the absence of such a thingyou are in no position to lambast or malign anyone for chosing a differing opinion. What are you going to say regarding Mufti Azam Pakistan, who has stated that Dr padri is batreen ghumrah, are you stating on the record that according to you Mufti sahib is wrong (and "spineless", words used by unbeknown) for not making takfir of him?
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم Brother unbeknown you seem to assume a lot? please show me where i said maulana ilyas qadir said it i was referring to the dar ul ifta fatawa not the words of maulana sahib perse, so stop chatting buingle! I see to did not answer or reply to: (3) Brother Unbeknown maybe you should consider in your long list the case of Pir Sayyed Karem Shah sahib? what are you going to say about him and his writings? and whilst your working that out What are you going to say about the ulema who were his contempories that did not issue fatawa against him or what he wrote? This question is specifically for brother unbeknown, "if you own personal thought is that anyone who does not make takfir on Dr Padri is spineless (in your opinion), what you going to say about Mufti Azam Pakistan Mufti Ashraful Qadiri sahib, that he is spineless?" Astagfirollah azeemi wa atoubu ilayh!!! why don't you reply to the above?
snaqshi, you need to come to grip with the following: 1. tahir's deviancies have been going from bad to worse over the years. around early or mid 2000s they reached blatant kufriyat like calling christians as believers. 2. his wembley gig is sareeh and open riddah, and it is compound riddah 3. yes in the past many genuinely respectable scholars called him a bidati or badtareen gumrah, but since mid 2000s a lot of scholars have made takfeer of him. the problem is Pakistani scholars for the most part, haven't put this takfeer on paper due to a valid or invalid 3udhr (I don't know if it is valid or invalid) of the country's political situation in shambles. they have blasted him ND made takfeer in private gatherings verbally, as well as they have stated the principles of deen regarding specific acts or sayings or beliefs of kufr which are found in tahir. The Indian ulema on the other hand did put this takfeer on paper but still overall a lot more is still desired even from the body of Indian ulema. hope that clears your confusion ND puts things in perspective for you. ---- also note that tahirs worst apostasy and shaytaniyat is his wembley gig and his ultra shameless and dajjalic defense of it and a lot of desi ulema are not well versed in English.
It is mentioned in Qadi Iyad's Shifa, Imam Nawawi's Rawda and Imam Ibn Hajar Makki's A'lam that, "It has been unanimously declared by the Ulama of Islam that whoever is not saying kafir to that person who is a Christian or a Jew or the person with the religion other than Islam, or he has a doubt, or he remain silent on saying him a kafir, is a kafir too". Answer to Question no. 2 in Fatawa al Harmain bi Rajf Nadwat-ul-Main Written by: Mujaddid e Din-o-Millat, Ala Hazrat, Shah Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Faadhil-e-Barelwi (RadiAllahu Ta'ala Anhu) Tahir-ul-Qadri is saying that Christians and Jews are Ahl-e-Iman. Now, whoever is not saying him a kafir and considering him as gumrah or bid'ati is also a kafir as per above mentioned reference. Huzoor Taajush Shariah Mufi Muhammad Akhtar Raza Khan Sahab and Muhaddith-e-Kabir Allama Zia-ul-Mustufa Sahab are saying him kafir. So, whoever denies their fatawa will become kafir in the light of above mentioned reference, because Tahir-ul-Qadri is saying that Christians and Jews are Ahl-e-Iman, and both of the personalities are saying him kafir. That means whoever denies their fatawa has some different opinion, and denying their fatawa means denying the fatawa of Ala Hazrat, and denying Ala Hazrat's fatawa means denying the statements of Qadi Iyad, Imam Nawawi and Imam Ibn Hajar Makki (RadiAllahu Ta'ala Anhum Ajmain). I hope Attari786 (i. e. the person who posted the question) is clear now.
