Ghalib: har aik baat peh kehte ho tum keh tu kia hai, tumhein kaho keh yeh andaaz-e guftugu kia hai Ala Hazrat: kis keh jalwe ki jhalak hai, yeh ujaala kia hai, har taraf deeda-e hairat zadah taktaa kia hai ay Raza jaan e anaadil terey nagnoM ke nisaar, bulbul e baag e Medinah tera kehna kia hai ghalib agar sunta, apna sar dhunta.
ghalib: aamad-e-KHat se hua hai sard jo bazar-e-dost sayyidi: Jobano(n) par hai bahare chaman aaraaiye dost Unko yakta kiya aur khalq banayi ya'ni Anjuman karke tamaasha kare tanhaaiye dost beats ghalib's, hands tied behind the back.
if there is one verse I like in dewaan-e-ghalib more than most others it is the verse quoted by misbah, it is your bent vision that sees us that we could not take the praise of sayyadina `ali karam allahu wajhah. -- the guy is speaking ill of a sayyadina muawiya raDiallahu anhu and replies by saying that he is doing that as he thinks this is "bandagi-e-bu-turab" raDiallahu anhu it is this position that was opposed not the sher itself. -- bhai yeh bad gumani kyuN ? we did not digest the act you were doing and calling it bandagi-e-bu turab, not the sher. ek to aap ghalat samjhe ke sher hamko nahin pacha, dusra yeh sabit karney me lag gayey ke alahazrat ne ghalib se istifada kiya. awwal to sher me koi kharabi nahiN aur na hi kisi ne sher ko kuch kaha, to yeh ma siwaye aapki zeheniyyat me khalal ke kuch aur nahiN dusra aapki mudallal guftagu ka kya kahuN ? bil-farz aap koi aisa sher pesh kartey jis me bad-deeni bhi hoti to alahazrat ka ghalib ki zameen me sher kehna uski taeed me kya koi daleel hoti. now dont jump on me that I said there is bad-deeni in that sher, I know thats how i see you draw conclusions. i wsa referring to the numerous ashar of ghalib that does.
I have to say that ghalib should not have even been brought into it. Some people seemed to have a problem as soon as his verses were quoted in praise of Hazrat Ali but otherwise they are always fond of praising him and quoting him. that is selectivity in a horrible sense. I don't think either side was quoting him as ultimate religious authority anyway.
oh, that. i did not mean to be disrespectful to the imam; it was probably not the best word to choose. however, i meant to say, 'a revolutionary'; but he wasn't just a freedom fighter. activist is not a lame word - it was meant to serve both as a political activist [freedom movement] and as a sunni activist who was among the foremost scholars to eschew the wahabi movement and refute the indian wahabi baba: ismayil dahlawi.
brothers, let us please end this discussion here. do not entertain any argument with those who disparage the SaHabah. there is no benefit in these things as taftazani wrote: I reiterate the opinion of [other] authorities in Islamic sciences that the discussion of what occurred amongst the Companions – their agreements and disputes – is not among the matters of belief [laysa mina’l áqāyid ad-dīnīyyah] nor among the principles of theological discourse [wa’l qawāyid al-kalāmiyyah]. There is no benefit for one’s religion in such disputes, rather it may harm one’s belief. [Sharĥ al-Maqāşid vol.5/pg.304: Objective the Sixth, Third Section: The Seventh Discussion] and as imam al-iji reported: [concerning the battles amongst the companions] imam shafiyi said: Allah ta'ala has kept our hands safe from their blood; let us keep our tongues free from it. ---- in my opinion, we must leave it at that thread. and should not encourage any more discussion in this issue. wa billahi't tawfiq.
Sorry. i meant that i think it's a bit direspectful to simply call 'Allama Fadl al-Haqq Khairabadi, (the greatest scholar of his time) an "activist"
what is ala-'hazrat azeemul barkat's opinion about it, ijtihadi ghalati or baghawat? whose double standard is this? Sadr ashsharia calls those who disparage Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah and yet claim to be sunnis as rafhdis.
it sounds tricky. does it include all of the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam? Imam of ahlussunah, Mola Ali KarramAllaho Wajhul Karim, all ummahat al-momineen RađiyAllāhu ánhunna, and rest of the companions including Sayydinua Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhum ajma'een? or just few selected companions like what rafdhis cliam?
this is your theory, we believe in what our scholars have said. moreover Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah was a sah'abi, but yazeed was not, so YOUR theory doesn't work here. this is your assumption. Alhamdulillah we LOVE all of the sahaba of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam - the middle way of ahlussunah, you know the hadith - but who cares when people have to pick and choose whatever fit their illusions.
here lies your real pain!! if you can accept an opinion of ahl al-sunna about Yazid bin muawiya then what is wrong if we also follow one opinion of ahl al-sunna .....DOUBLE STANDARDS...in your theory, Imam Hussain/ yazid.....Imam Ali/hazrat muawiya...both times the efforts of OUR imams were futile. ""slandering the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam,"" I have never slandered the blessed companions...show me. It is Rasul Allah(RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa aalihi sallam) that said "May Allah not fill his belly'" and "the party that martyrs Ammar(R) will be calling to HELL FIRE"...so if you have any complaints then make it to bukhari and Moslim...and follow the chain to Rasul Allah( şallAllāhu álayhi wa aalihi sallam) ""and even some of the quotes including from al-aSabah (الاصابه) of Imam ibn 'Hajar Asqalani refer slanderers as transgressors and infidel (zindeeq)"". it is available online...and there are things in there such as killing of Hazrat Hajr bin Addi(R)...Hazrat Mohammed bin abi bakr al-Siddeeq(R) being killed and buried in donkey skin by your ijtihadi ghalati. as for Ghalib, well i never started the thread or named it....it is your pals that could not digest a couplet in praise of OUR Imam and had to take it out on ghalib...so i showed them that Aalahazrat azeemul barkat also did istifada from ghalib...nothing more nothing less.
yes, as long as we don't quote ala-hazrat's rebuttal on slandering the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam, specially 'Hazrat Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhu, otherwise missed. hidaya's mouth would be froathing with curses. I really don't know about you, and hope you are not among them, but it is quite interesting to note that many people who were so excited to prove that only the takfir of yazeed is a valid postion held by majority of ahlussunah scolars(*), now sit quiet at the defamation of 'Hazrat Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhu. I feel as if they nod their heads in agreement with every post of missed. hidaya that yeh! you are right. just my gut feelings. (*) recently, I bought Fadhail-e-Sahaba by Hazrat Shah Turab Al-Haq Qadri, and during the course of these hot debates I finished the sections about Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhu and Yazid paleed. Shah Sahab, with profs from Quran and Haidth, vehemently rejects disparaging Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah, and even some of the quotes including from al-aSabah (الاصابه) of Imam ibn 'Hajar Asqalani refer slanderers as transgressors and infidel (zindeeq). 'Hazrat Shah Turab Al-Haq Qadri also gathers proofs, mainly from ibn jawzi and imam taftazani alaihuma rahma wa ridwan, that yazeed was a disbeliever, but in the end concludes that 'but we do not waste our time in cursing upon him'. insha Allah Subĥānahu wa táālā I'll try to scan the relevant sections and upload on the forums.
Mis-Hidaya is simply insinuating that ala Hazrat (azim-ul barkat) at best owed his poetic genius to Ghalib or at worst blatantly plagiarised Ghalib's works!
actually, that is a translation of a verse, a hadith and a khabar. so alaHazrat's source is the verse and hadith - not ghalib's verse. but anyway, you are trying to prove what? that ghalib was a great poet? or that ghalib was a pious man? or what? ghalib was a great urdu poet; and some of his verses are worth quoting...and we can end it there. jaanta huN sawab e Ta'at o zuhd par tabi`at idhar nahiN aati ye masayil e taSawwuf ye tera bayan ghalib tujhe ham wali samajhte jo na baada khwaar hotaa --- and there is one more for your list: ghalib: aamad e khaT sey huwa hai sard jo baazaar e dost duud e shama e kushta tha shayad khaT e rukhsar e dost
bajaa farmaya aapney, takleef muaaf, kiya aap ek do misalen pesh kar saktey hain jahan ghalib ney kissi aur ki zameen ko khiraaj pesh kiya ho?
it was not only borrowing behr, kafiya, radeef but aalahazrat also translated some of Ghalib's farsi naat into urdu, examples below: Ghalib says in praise of Hazur e Akram(S): Ghalib sana e khwaja ba yazd'an guzashtam ka'n zaat e paak martaba daan e Mohammed ast Alalahazrat translates it in urdu as: ay raza khud sahib e Quran hai maddha e Huzur tujh sey kab mumkin hai phir midhat Rasul Allah ki Ghalib says: Haq jalwa gar ze tarzey bayan e Mohammed ast aarey kalam e haq ba zuban e Mohammed ast Alahazrat translates his one into two: woh dhan jis ki har baat wahy e khuda chashma e ilmo hikmat pey lakhon salam mazhar e haq ho tumhi muzhar e haq ho tumhi tum mein zahir hai khuda tum pey karoron darood
