Ghalib Verses AlaHazrat

Discussion in 'Poetry' started by Aqib alQadri, Dec 12, 2016.

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  1. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    har aik baat peh kehte ho tum keh tu kia hai,
    tumhein kaho keh yeh andaaz-e guftugu kia hai

    Ala Hazrat:

    kis keh jalwe ki jhalak hai, yeh ujaala kia hai,
    har taraf deeda-e hairat zadah taktaa kia hai

    ay Raza jaan e anaadil terey nagnoM ke nisaar,
    bulbul e baag e Medinah tera kehna kia hai

    ghalib agar sunta, apna sar dhunta.
    abu Usman likes this.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

  3. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    if there is one verse I like in dewaan-e-ghalib more than most others it is the verse quoted by misbah, it is your bent vision that sees us that we could not take the praise of sayyadina `ali karam allahu wajhah.


    the guy is speaking ill of a sayyadina muawiya raDiallahu anhu and replies by saying that he is doing that as he thinks this is "bandagi-e-bu-turab" raDiallahu anhu

    it is this position that was opposed not the sher itself.


    bhai yeh bad gumani kyuN ? we did not digest the act you were doing and calling it bandagi-e-bu turab, not the sher.

    ek to aap ghalat samjhe ke sher hamko nahin pacha, dusra yeh sabit karney me lag gayey ke alahazrat ne ghalib se istifada kiya.

    awwal to sher me koi kharabi nahiN aur na hi kisi ne sher ko kuch kaha, to yeh ma siwaye aapki zeheniyyat me khalal ke kuch aur nahiN

    dusra aapki mudallal guftagu ka kya kahuN ? bil-farz aap koi aisa sher pesh kartey jis me bad-deeni bhi hoti to alahazrat ka ghalib ki zameen me sher kehna uski taeed me kya koi daleel hoti.

    now dont jump on me that I said there is bad-deeni in that sher, I know thats how i see you draw conclusions. i wsa referring to the numerous ashar of ghalib that does.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2007
  4. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    I have to say that ghalib should not have even been brought into it. Some people seemed to have a problem as soon as his verses were quoted in praise of Hazrat Ali but otherwise they are always fond of praising him and quoting him. that is selectivity in a horrible sense. I don't think either side was quoting him as ultimate religious authority anyway.
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    oh, that.

    i did not mean to be disrespectful to the imam; it was probably not the best word to choose. however, i meant to say, 'a revolutionary'; but he wasn't just a freedom fighter.

    activist is not a lame word - it was meant to serve both as a political activist [freedom movement] and as a sunni activist who was among the foremost scholars to eschew the wahabi movement and refute the indian wahabi baba: ismayil dahlawi.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    brothers, let us please end this discussion here. do not entertain any argument with those who disparage the SaHabah. there is no benefit in these things as taftazani wrote:
    I reiterate the opinion of [other] authorities in Islamic sciences that the discussion of what occurred amongst the Companions – their agreements and disputes – is not among the matters of belief [laysa mina’l áqāyid ad-dīnīyyah] nor among the principles of theological discourse [wa’l qawāyid al-kalāmiyyah]. There is no benefit for one’s religion in such disputes, rather it may harm one’s belief. [Sharĥ al-Maqāşid vol.5/pg.304: Objective the Sixth, Third Section: The Seventh Discussion]
    and as imam al-iji reported:
    [concerning the battles amongst the companions] imam shafiyi said: Allah ta'ala has kept our hands safe from their blood; let us keep our tongues free from it.
    in my opinion, we must leave it at that thread. and should not encourage any more discussion in this issue.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  7. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Sorry. i meant that i think it's a bit direspectful to simply call 'Allama Fadl al-Haqq Khairabadi, (the greatest scholar of his time) an "activist"
  8. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    what is ala-'hazrat azeemul barkat's opinion about it, ijtihadi ghalati or baghawat? whose double standard is this?

    Sadr ashsharia calls those who disparage Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah and yet claim to be sunnis as rafhdis.
  9. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    it sounds tricky. does it include all of the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam? Imam of ahlussunah, Mola Ali KarramAllaho Wajhul Karim, all ummahat al-momineen RađiyAllāhu ánhunna, and rest of the companions including Sayydinua Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhum ajma'een? or just few selected companions like what rafdhis cliam?

  10. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    this is your theory, we believe in what our scholars have said. moreover Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah was a sah'abi, but yazeed was not, so YOUR theory doesn't work here.

    this is your assumption. Alhamdulillah we LOVE all of the sahaba of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam - the middle way of ahlussunah, you know the hadith - but who cares when people have to pick and choose whatever fit their illusions.
  11. Misbah al-Hidaya

    Misbah al-Hidaya Active Member

    here lies your real pain!! if you can accept an opinion of ahl al-sunna about Yazid bin muawiya then what is wrong if we also follow one opinion of ahl al-sunna .....DOUBLE your theory, Imam Hussain/ yazid.....Imam Ali/hazrat muawiya...both times the efforts of OUR imams were futile.
    ""slandering the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam,""
    I have never slandered the blessed me. It is Rasul Allah(RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa aalihi sallam) that said "May Allah not fill his belly'" and "the party that martyrs Ammar(R) will be calling to HELL FIRE" if you have any complaints then make it to bukhari and Moslim...and follow the chain to Rasul Allah( şallAllāhu álayhi wa aalihi sallam)
    ""and even some of the quotes including from al-aSabah (الاصابه) of Imam ibn 'Hajar Asqalani refer slanderers as transgressors and infidel (zindeeq)"".
    it is available online...and there are things in there such as killing of Hazrat Hajr bin Addi(R)...Hazrat Mohammed bin abi bakr al-Siddeeq(R) being killed and buried in donkey skin by your ijtihadi ghalati.

    as for Ghalib, well i never started the thread or named is your pals that could not digest a couplet in praise of OUR Imam and had to take it out on i showed them that Aalahazrat azeemul barkat also did istifada from ghalib...nothing more nothing less.

    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  12. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    yes, as long as we don't quote ala-hazrat's rebuttal on slandering the companions of RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam, specially 'Hazrat Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhu, otherwise missed. hidaya's mouth would be froathing with curses.

    I really don't know about you, and hope you are not among them, but it is quite interesting to note that many people who were so excited to prove that only the takfir of yazeed is a valid postion held by majority of ahlussunah scolars(*), now sit quiet at the defamation of 'Hazrat Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah
    RađiyAllāhu ánhu. I feel as if they nod their heads in agreement with every post of missed. hidaya that yeh! you are right.

    just my gut feelings.

    (*) recently, I bought Fadhail-e-Sahaba by Hazrat Shah Turab Al-Haq Qadri, and during the course of these hot debates I finished the sections about Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah RađiyAllāhu ánhu and Yazid paleed. Shah Sahab, with profs from Quran and Haidth, vehemently rejects disparaging Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiyyah, and even some of the quotes including from al-aSabah (الاصابه) of Imam ibn 'Hajar Asqalani refer slanderers as transgressors and infidel (zindeeq).

    'Hazrat Shah Turab Al-Haq Qadri also gathers proofs, mainly from ibn jawzi and imam taftazani
    alaihuma rahma wa ridwan, that yazeed was a disbeliever, but in the end concludes that 'but we do not waste our time in cursing upon him'. insha Allah Subĥānahu wa táālā I'll try to scan the relevant sections and upload on the forums.

    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  13. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Mis-Hidaya is simply insinuating that ala Hazrat (azim-ul barkat) at best owed his poetic genius to Ghalib or at worst blatantly plagiarised Ghalib's works!
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    actually, that is a translation of a verse, a hadith and a khabar. so alaHazrat's source is the verse and hadith - not ghalib's verse.

    but anyway, you are trying to prove what? that ghalib was a great poet? or that ghalib was a pious man? or what? ghalib was a great urdu poet; and some of his verses are worth quoting...and we can end it there.

    jaanta huN sawab e Ta'at o zuhd
    par tabi`at idhar nahiN aati

    ye masayil e taSawwuf ye tera bayan ghalib
    tujhe ham wali samajhte jo na baada khwaar hotaa

    and there is one more for your list:
    aamad e khaT sey huwa hai sard jo baazaar e dost
    duud e shama e kushta tha shayad khaT e rukhsar e dost
  15. Misbah al-Hidaya

    Misbah al-Hidaya Active Member

    bajaa farmaya aapney, takleef muaaf, kiya aap ek do misalen pesh kar saktey hain jahan ghalib ney kissi aur ki zameen ko khiraaj pesh kiya ho?
  16. Misbah al-Hidaya

    Misbah al-Hidaya Active Member

    it would be nice if you can quote some examples for our mutual admiration of the Ustad.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  17. Misbah al-Hidaya

    Misbah al-Hidaya Active Member

    it was not only borrowing behr, kafiya, radeef but aalahazrat also translated some of Ghalib's farsi naat into urdu, examples below:

    Ghalib says in praise of Hazur e Akram(S):

    Ghalib sana e khwaja ba yazd'an guzashtam
    ka'n zaat e paak martaba daan e Mohammed ast

    Alalahazrat translates it in urdu as:

    ay raza khud sahib e Quran hai maddha e Huzur
    tujh sey kab mumkin hai phir midhat Rasul Allah ki

    Ghalib says:

    Haq jalwa gar ze tarzey bayan e Mohammed ast
    aarey kalam e haq ba zuban e Mohammed ast

    Alahazrat translates his one into two:

    woh dhan jis ki har baat wahy e khuda
    chashma e ilmo hikmat pey lakhon salam

    mazhar e haq ho tumhi muzhar e haq ho tumhi
    tum mein zahir hai khuda tum pey karoron darood
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  19. is that really a verse of Asad's?
  20. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    i think it's a bit disrespectful to simply call in that manner.

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