Ghazwa-e-Hind Hadith

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by SaadSohail, Feb 27, 2019.

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  1. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail New Member

    You want Indian Muslims to "openly" support Pakistan Army, since it's 95% Muslim? That is daft.
    This is not what you implied previously when you said "To say that Pakistan army is a Muslim army that Indian Muslims should support is equally daft." If a muslim has a choice between two armies one that is Kafir and the other that is muslims, each one of them ready to wipe each other off, the choice for a muslim is clear cut. There is no foolishness about this. However, when it comes to "openly" supporting or declaring to side with the said muslim army whilst present in Kafir Majority country, there is a difference of opinion and in my opinion "silence" is the viable option here, owing to extreme pressures encountered by the indian muslims. Even if the indian muslims do succomb under pressure or threat, and chose to side with the indian army, I have no disagreements here.

    My questions to you was never in relation to "openly" supporting Pak Army. Compare what you are saying with that person in the video. There is a world of difference between the two. On one hand, there are indian muslims who are pressurized in one way or the other. And on the other hand, there are "so called" muslims openly "choosing" to side with Kufar. What kind of pressure would the person be when he uttered that statement standing infront of Kabah?
    Truly Guidance alone is from Allah(swt).

    And nothing is clouding my judgement. I am sorry. There are tons of things i find wrong with Pakistan and its army but the end of the day, they are still muslims and i, as a muslim, would prefer them over the Kufar any day.
  2. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    You want Indian Muslims to openly support Pakistan Army, since it's 95% Muslim? That is daft. It is my personal opinion that at least quarter of Indian Muslims are closet Pakistan supporter (at least its cricket team), but why should this be displayed in open public domain?

    I think jingoism (and misplaced patriotism) is clouding your judgement. I will rile Pakistanis on this forum by saying that majority of them (not all, though) are hopeless jingoists. I don't know whether it is a legacy of Pakistan's creation or just that people across the border are more insecure. It's easier for a Pakistani to wear his nationalism on sleeve, than it is for an Indian Muslim.

    To be honest, in issues like these perspectives are lost. Are you as a Barelwi Pakistani supporting the existence of ahl-e-hadith/deobandi/salafi terror groups like JeM/JuD/Azhar Masood/Hafiz Saeed/Haqqanis? Will you cheer if Pakistan shells border villages in Kashmir and causes casualty to Muslims?

    Just to clarify. I am an Indian Muslim and don't feel even an iota of pride for being an Indian national (by current definition, I qualify as an anti-national!). Yes, I am ethnic Indian by descent/root and I cherish that. I care about Indian Muslims, just more than I care about Muslims all over the world (from Ughuyrs, to Rohingayas, to Moros).

    Do I really want India to annihilate Pakistan? No. I don't wish a single Pakistani soldier/civilian to be harmed by Indian army. But will I say this on public square in India? No, not because anyone scares me, but because it is just not appropriate. Like many things else, what I keep to my heart and discuss only in private, is not always suitable for public consumption.

    True nationalism or patriotism to my mind is being a good citizen, paying taxes, not misusing public facilities, helping your fellow countrymen etc. Beating war drums is for cowards.
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  3. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

  4. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail New Member

    How is that an equal daft? Isn't that an exaggeration? If you meant patriotism that does make sense but it is still a false analogy because
    Pakistan army comprises of more than 95% muslims.
    Indian army comprises of more than 97% Kuffar. ( based on Brother Abu Hassan's post)
    See what this man is saying standing infront of Kabah.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  5. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Just came across this poem by Sahir Ludhianvi lamenting the futility of war.
  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    There's no shortage of cheering idiots on either sides. To say that Pakistan army is a Muslim army that Indian Muslims should support is equally daft.
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  7. Sunnisoldier

    Sunnisoldier New Member

    Abu Hasan wants every scholar to speak up and be men but he hides anonymously in Dubai like a true sufi. Maybe the UAE government are terrorising him like the Indians are terrorising Raza Academy.

    @Harris786 when is my man going to come out of hiding?

    Abu Hasan and Aqdas are opening up a can of worms. What happens if Hamza Yusuf or anyone else says that they have been threatened or they are scared?
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    some facts:

    if any of you really have muslim interests at heart, read this report in full to understand the state of muslims in india. Committee Recommendations-English.pdf


    There is, however, an unofficial number, and it is revealing. According to CNN IBN’s Minority Report, of India’s one million soldiers only 3 percent are Muslims, or roughly 29,000 soldiers in all. And if the troops serving in the Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (JAK LI), are subtracted (50 percent of whom are Muslim troops), that percentage is much lower. With only 29,000 fit for the army out of 150 million Muslims in the country, the ambiguous silence of the government tends to validate the suspicion of discrimination.​

    most of the troops are kashmiris and they have little choice. they are between a rock and a hard place. no one has suffered in this indo-pak conflict as much as indian kashmiri muslims.

    shaykh asrar can relax. muslims do not rush to join the indian army (and even if they do, they won't get in easily). and until now, it is a volunteer army.

    a relevant article from across the border (without vouching for the veracity of all the statements made therein):

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
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  9. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail New Member

    I have seen some videos of some Indian muslims cheering for Indian army and calling them shaheed/Martyr.(Astagfirullah). Ofcourse i am not generalizing that all indian muslims are like that. But it still amazes me that some of these (secular patriotic muslims in India) have the audacity to support a Kafir army against a muslim one.
  10. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    You are a moron, both in the sense of lacking comprehension and lacking manners. When did you last get yourself tested?

    aH didn't commend Raza Academy's public show (which is cringeworthy to say the least).

    Wrong. TV happened only a decade back. Sunni DI & DI creation predates that by several years. Get your facts right. In any case Pakistan based DI wouldn't have had any influence or ability to function freely within India. Till date, DI muballighs routinely go to Nepal and other countries to clandestinely meet high-level functionaries (nigran-e-shura etc.). Whatever be the cause of division (most are just hearsay), Sunni DI (although not organisationally as strong as DI) doesn't really trying competing even in neutral territories like UK etc.

    Why are you just chest thumping on this forum? Shouldn't you be out there fighting for the cause?
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  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    having said that - perhaps for the first time in living memory, pakistan has done a very good turn for indian muslims by retaliation, even if they did not intend to do it to help indian muslims per se.

    this may cause modi to lose the election - and that is something favourable for indian muslims and indians as a whole.

    wAllahu a'alam.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    call it emotional if you want but everything that pakistan does (and pakistanis cheer from their safe homes), has a direct impact on indian muslims. indian muslims pay for pakistani bravado.

    besides, can you please make a list of things that pakistan has done for india? even now, they are defending their homeland (which is fine; i am not against it) - but please don't parcel it as 'helping indian muslims'.

    indian muslims were doing well until militancy started in kashmir. thereafter, it only went downhill. hindutva parties control gullible hindu majority by citing pakistan. this is a favourite tool to disenfranchise muslims and have reduced them to second-class citizens.

    did indian muslims ever appeal to pakistan to help them? they are managing their affairs as best as they can.

    as for the current issue: india ostensibly attacked a 'terror camp'. apparently it was masood az'har, a rabid wahabi terrorist. didn't they claim attack on pulwama? why is not there a denial from masood azhar or JeM that they are not responsible for pulwama? true imran khan asked for actionable intelligence that pak territory was used for launching these attacks. but still, this was NOT about hindus and muslims. so supporting the IAF is not about supporting hindus.

    personally, i would not do it. i follow the hadith of withholding tongues in the final days. and even if push comes to shove, i will not fight against muslim soldiers.

    the very idea of pakistan and the partition has caused muslims to be scattered and thus rendered powerless. partition was a mistake. no amount of false arguments by pakistanis and 'dreams' cited by scholars will dissuade me from that conviction. the truth - FACT - is, one section of muslims benefited by pakistan - but a very large population suffered for it, and continues to suffer.

    making grandstanding statements and taunting is at best selfishness and lack of empathy. at worst, worshipping the nationalism-idol. the pakistan that sunnis try to blackmail us - has its generous share of rafidis, wahabis, atheists and modernists. for all practical purposes, pakistan is a secular country. let us not use labels for convenience.

    al-iyadhu billah. wa la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    you are a prize idiot. i won't argue with you.
    i should have remembered that arguing with fools only results in making a fool of oneself.

    wa's salam.
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  14. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    I hope the Barfi was not blessed with cow-urine.

    sunni dawat e islami was setup by indians over petty issue of pictures/ tv channel. They created havoc and even attempted to assassinate Mawlana Ilyas Qadri. What sense does it make to setup a rival organisation with a similar name and slap Sunni in front?

    do you think right wing extreme groups in India influenced Muslims to do this?

    Seems something that would only benefit the enemy.

    Either Indians are pressured by Hindus to cause fitna against Pakistanis or they are just racist.

    Also how come the Indian Dev’s aren’t handing mitai? Just Barelwis got mob problems?

    Attached Files:

  15. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    this is just emotional nonsense, did you want qaid e azam to email you or post on here for your advice before creating Pakistan?
  16. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    when all else fails let’s get personal about privileges.

    you could be sipping mojitos and responding whilst laying on jbr beach. if you want me to respect your right to remain anonymous you need to learn to respect the fact that I reveal myself.

    Anyway Mark and Zaytona could use the same reasoning living in America, with Trump being so unfriendly toward Muslims. I’m sure Tim could put together a similar justification too!
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    sub'HanAllah. bravado by privileged kids who do not seem to ever have faced mobs or persecution or discrimination as minorities, living alongside a hostile majority. you may be old, but your behaviour is no better than a teenager.

    oh yeah. if an organisation did something unsavoury, smear the whole indian scholarship. but shouldn't you be commenting on govt-funded scholars furthering agenda of 'kafir' governments in your own country?

    generalisation. while i do not really like this particular action by raza academy, and i certainly do not condone it. yet, terming it hindu agenda vs. islam/muslims is unfair.

    nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  18. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    This puts a big question mark around credibility of current Indian Scholarship as the situation is understood from the below to be so bad that Hindus are influencing agendas upon Muslims.
  19. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    It is easy making just posts whilst sitting pretty anonymously in Dubai.

    Maybe one day Pakistan will raise the flag over New Delhi and you and Mawlana Aqdas Mirpuri can be my neighbours.

    We pray that Allah makes it easy for our brothers and sisters in India with spineless institutes like Raza Academy.
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    am sorry for repeating this - but muslims are in india are still paying repaying the debt incurred for the creation of pakistan.

    as blunt as it gets.
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