Hanafi Principles by Atabek

Discussion in 'Usul al-Hadith' started by Bazdawi, May 3, 2016.

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  1. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Active Member

    him (or his followers) have already insinuated previously that there were many hanafi-mutazilis and mutazilis were respected overall.
     
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    rather to hide the fact that he is a mu'tazili, or an agent trying to introduce mutazili creed.
     
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  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Got it from a brother.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Active Member

    so it seems donkey-man has made up a new hadith principle of 'it doesnt need a chain because its meaning is supported by many verses and hadith' but discards his own made up principle when it suits.

    donkey-man is a heretic, making his own religion of 'pick-and-choose'.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2016
  5. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    "Atabeks book on Hadith

    The hard reality is that they promote the ignorant folks, who dont even have a good idea about the basics of Aqaaid and Fiqh and the framework to judge Ahadith, to desecrate and blaspheme many Ahadith based on their own "feeling" and "thought", rather by the thorough investigation by great Muhaddithin and Mutakallim scholar

    This is similar to the goals of the Mustahriq. Fact is Atabek, erred massively in many points, even in this books in very simple to find facts, showing that they are not eligible to even investigate Ahadith.

    The reality is this is just another attempt to brainwash the common people as if the predecessors were idiots and did not know about Aqaaid and basic rulings, and therefore people should pay hunderds of pounds for lessons (money factor) to study at avicenna to know this.

    Rather by studying the books of Iyad and other Shuruh, one will see they are actually blatantly lying and deceiving. These topic are handled in basic Aqaaid books, even the topic of Sihr was refuted by scholars of Egypt many years ago. They use the same tactics as the Mustashriq in order to defame predecessors and to make themselves as a marja for the awaam. Spreading confusion as if Bukhari and Muslim etc are full of heretic beliefs etc.

    And yes I have challegend Atabek many times on this topic, but he does not dare to, rather removed messages and evaded it. A farce of an student in knowledge atabek is. The pathetic thing is, he removes and blocks people, and later one claims you see there is no one to refute me?."
     
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  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Atabek the donkey's book, 'hanafi principles of testing hadith'...

    I wonder if Atabek and co. want it to be analysed and reviewed...

    I tried to get one copy and they even took my money, but they have so far refused to post it out.

    Never mind. A brother has offered us a copy...
     
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  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    doesn't that atabek, or his apprentice fear that their heads will become that of donkeys?

    i was telling a brother why i called them donkeys - the obvious reason as most would have guessed is from the qur'anic verse, that people who speak of knowledgeو without true faith and applicationو are like donkeys carrying books.

    another reason, is from an anecdote concerning a hadith in both bukhari and muslim:
    RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said:

    he who raises his head from ruku', before the imam does; doesn't he fear that Allah ta'ala will transform his head into the head of a donkey?

    in another riwayah: doesn't he fear his face will become that of a donkey?
    ---
    ulama explained this as maskh' ma'anawi - metaphorical disfiguration - that is he will become stupid like a donkey.
    [summarising from] mulla ali qari, says that it is quite possible that it can be literal and means actual disfiguration; because, a group of scholars have said that maskh or disfiguration is possible even in our nation [some others have considered it impossible, because they deem disfiguration/maskh impossible for this ummah] - khattabi, however has considered it possible for maskh to occur; and this could be maskh of an individual, and the saHiH hadith which say 'maskh will not occur' speak of general maskh [as it occurred in previous nations; whole communities were disfigured as punishment]. and maskh will occur in the final days as mentioned in ahadith of tribulations [aH: such as tirmidhi,2159 and 2160: there will be khasf [buried in the earth suddenly and totally as in a sinkhole] and maskh [disfiguration] in my ummah; and that will be for deniers of destiny].

    now, ali al-qari narrates a story about a hadith scholar who travelled to damascus, to take a hadith from one of the shaykhs who was known for narrating it. he read the hadith, and the shaykh was behind a veil and he couldn't see the shaykh's face. he stayed with the shaykh for sometime; when he saw this muhaddith being eager to learn, the shaykh removed the veil and he saw that his face had become like that of a donkey. the shaykh said: "my son, be warned. do not get ahead of the imam. when this hadith reached me, i considered it far-fetched and [didn't care about getting] ahead of the imam; and then my face became as you see."

    qari says that this could have happened because of his considering that such a thing was far-fetched (istiybad) and could not occur. [aH: that is, rejecting the hadith on the basis of one's own reasoning]. because we see many people get ahead of the imam [without anything happening to them]. [see mirqat al-mafatih, ali al-qari, 3/199, #1141] [also teebi in kashf al-haqayiq, 4/1164, #1141].

    ----
    i consider the teacher-disciple as donkey and dunayki because they have been making fun of saHiH hadith, just because they cannot understand it; and the words in which the donkey said it were so rude and obnoxious, that by Hukm of fuqaha, he can be considered a murtadd.

    a man like imam nawawi, whose knowledge of hadith and everything else that matters, his piety, his wara', his devotion to knowledge is so famous and undeniable - says in the adab of hadith, that if one encounters a hadith which doesn't have proper credentials, one should not reject it, unless the imams of hadith have said so; if such definitive statement is not made by imams of hadith, one should say: "i don't know this hadith" or "i don't know the status of this hadith" or "the sanad of this hadith is not established" [unless it is obviously against established aqidah etc., which is a separate issue. wAllahu a'alam]

    here we have a bunch of jokers, making fun of hadith in SaHiHayn. and, oh...they have 'hanafi' hadith principles. from what i saw in one of his videos, atabek does not know the difference between terminology of hadith and application of hadith.

    ---
    what 'refutation' of these jokers?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
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  8. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    @ubaidraza

    Is it ONLY Shaykh Asrar's task to address issues?
     
  9. ubaidraza

    ubaidraza New Member

    20151214_232022.png Why hasn't Sheikh Asrar sorted him out?
     
  10. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Active Member

  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    exactly. i don't see a very large following of atabek and hence i didn't think refuting his book is of higher priority. perhaps i am mistaken.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    a knowledgeable shaykh told me, the aim of refutations is really to deliver knowledge to those Muslims who don't know better or to convince the genuinely (ie honestly) confused and the fence-sitters. refutations changing the minds of the bid3ah holders themselves is a rarity. mostly they become more obstinate and look for "daleels" to support the positions they already took, rather than look for the right material and form a position (not something just the deobandis have monopoly on). of course outright kafirs also convert to Islam and bid3ah some holders do change stances too but this ain't the norm.

    Allah guides whom He wills.
     
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    well, i tried, but it is an affront to me to spend time on these donkeys.
    we refuted some of his facebook posts on this forum itself, but when i saw some of their responses, i gave up:

    kamdanyamut.jpg
     
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  14. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    only name-calling without any refutation of their views will not help much.
     
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    it seems he's been trained to work with fallacies and attack people's religion to present a west-compliant "Islam"; and adding the Hanafi label is just a fashion statement to win jahil admirers and influence idiots, much like mark hanson's namedropping
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
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  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    atabek is a donkey. the other is a dunayki.
     
  17. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

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  18. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

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