Hossein nasr, the perennialist's tafsir

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by Aqdas, May 3, 2016.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Now I don't know amjad mahmood's stance on other things but here he refutes the study quran (again, if the Facebook page is officially his own):
     

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  2. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran


    Bro, the college student group is the most important actually. These MSAs are prime target for propagation. Hamza Yusuf wants to appeal to the salafis, watering them down, and displacing the hardcore ones to the periphery. He is very diplomatic. However, he leaves shiites alone. hmmm
     
  3. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider Shajar-e-Sharjeel Shajar-e-Uthman

    It should be noted that the audience falling pray to "study Quran" shenanigans; are the "academic", college students. The atmosphere around the phyche of these people is that they swallow the words of people graduated from some university facevalue; so it only makes sence for the respected shaykh to use his degree to grab the attention of these unfortunate bunch.
     
  4. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    That makes it OK. does it?
    And in what subjects?

    Not if u are a mubaligh, at a worldwide level, and u are a hujjat, and should not be indicating that ur suffering from an inferiorty complex, but ur also correct, it is best to ask.

    "This is called extremism...."

    You have misunderstood, so, don't sound like one. Or u will sound like Hanson, asking for husn e dhan, when ur in the wrong.

    Don't take it personally. It is not the way of explaining to people, what they do not know. Also I just saw shoddy university degrees,:in imitation of the kuffar, Without pointing out that he studied with his father, Mulla Ramadan alButi, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala 'alayh,
    Also why not a decisive fatwa like Mufti 'Abd alRahman of Mauritania, that nasr and Co. are kafirs?
    and when is Hanson going to do raju'?
    First on Dante.
    On ling, I mean, when is he going to stop calling him a Wali Allah, Azza wa Jall, when he is just a "saint".
    And follow he's claimed teachers son, and give him tarjih, leaving his own opinion?
    and, also, explaining to the noble Sayyid from Tarim, (who, he was, probably "appealing" to in that dodgy article about ling in the "Q" news magazine, sounds like a James Bond villian!?), the actual beliefs of ling and co. (instead of, (probably), telling him selective details), Shaykh Murabit alHajj, hafidhuhullahi Ta'ala, without the usual crying about his teacher?
     
  5. Inwardreflection

    Inwardreflection Well-Known Member

    imitation of the kuffar,

    How is posting your university degree an imitation of the kuffaar when Muslims also go to universities the world over.
    Before we would rush to give benefit of the doubt now we rush to post publicly for the world to see how to cast aspertions at the drop of a hat without a second thought.

    This is called extremism....
     
  6. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Don't take it personally. It is not the way of explaining to people, what they do not know. Also I just saw shoddy university degrees,:in imitation of the kuffar, Without pointing out that he studied with his father, Mulla Ramadan alButi, Rahmat Allahi Ta'ala 'alayh,
    Also why not a decisive fatwa like Mufti 'Abd alRahman of Mauritania, that nasr and Co. are kafirs?
    and when is Hanson going to do raju'?
    First on Dante.
    On ling, I mean, when is he going to stop calling him a Wali Allah, Azza wa Jall, when he is just a "saint".
    And follow he's claimed teachers son, and give him tarjih, leaving his own opinion?
    and, also, explaining to the noble Sayyid from Tarim, (who, he was, probably "appealing" to in that dodgy article about ling in the "Q" news magazine, sounds like a James Bond villian!?), the actual beliefs of ling and co. (instead of, (probably), telling him selective details), Shaykh Murabit alHajj, hafidhuhullahi Ta'ala, without the usual crying about his teacher?
     
  7. Inwardreflection

    Inwardreflection Well-Known Member

    We should weep for the one Who doesn't know the credentials of the Bouti Family and requires an introduction
     
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  9. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

  10. CHISHTI

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ..minhajis should also ponder......

    .."Indeed the belief that the People of the Book, with the beliefs that they currently hold, are not disbelievers contradicts what is clear in the Book of Allah, and the circulation of such publications is one of the waves of misguidance that Muslims are exposed to, in addition to their other afflictions.".....

    ..I believe that tahir would also promote this kufr if it didn't directly compete with his Irfan ul Quran in the western market place...and the minhajis would herd together to defend it.
     
  11. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alHamdulillah.
    Allahu Akbar.
     
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  13. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    [Post 1]

    "'The Study Quran' book cannot be accepted and it includes statements of disbelief (Kufr). Those who promote it or endorsed it are also participating in the misguidance and have set a bad precedent for which they are sinful and carry the sins in this regard for those who follow them as well. Also, it is not lawful to buy the book except for someone knowledgeable; so they may refute the falsehood in it."

    — Shaykh Abdur Rahman ould Murabit al-Hajj [Satement made on 18th of February 2016]


    [Post 2]

    When Shaykh Abdur Rahman's statement was shared regarding The Study Quran book, some important questions were raised. It is only fair to address them instead of sharing statements from senior scholars from distant lands who (apparently) don't understand our "western social constructs" and "community dynamics" and are not looking at the bigger picture. So, here's just an attempt at that:

    1) "Does the Shaykh read English?"
    — No, the Shaykh does not read English. But, must he be able to read English when there is a qualified person translating the passages to him from English to Arabic? Absolutely not. The relevant passages were translated to him, which gives the mufti a clear gist of what is being propagated.

    2) "Has he read the work?"
    — No, he has not read the work cover-to-cover, nor is it necessary to do so. Did the endorsers of the work read it cover-to-cover before endorsing it? According to the editors, no, as they were only shown selected passages from it. They then went ahead to endorse the work (without having read it cover-to-cover and to be honest, I doubt if any of them has even finished reading it yet). No objections were raised there, why should there be objections now?

    3) "What are his links/relation to people who wrote the book?"
    — He has no links/relations with people who wrote the book, but the endorsers do. Perhaps that is the reason why he doesn't have to sugar-coat his words and be diplomatic about them.

    4) "What about the communities it is being advertised too?"
    — Scholars don't need it and 'Awaam can do without it. So, who exactly is the work being advertised to?

    5) "Does he have an awareness of some of the community dynamics?"
    — Kufr is Kufr in Dar al-Islam and Kufr is Kufr in Dar al-Kufr. Kufr is Kufr in English and Kufr is Kufr in Arabic. We don't have one 'Aqidah for the far-flung lands and another for Rum. It is one and the same and community dynamics mean nothing, especially when there is no legal precedent in the classical works for endorsing such works that contain Kufr in them. The Kufr may seem minute, or insignificant, but consider the struggling souls out there who lack the cognitive framework and the knowledge to differentiate the good from bad.

    Sh. Hamza Yusuf said, "Shaykh Abdur Rahman is a scholar you can never cease to learn from in your lifetime."

    Shaykh Abdur Rahman was a Mufti of UAE for some time. Then, he moved to Spain where he is an Imam of a mosque in Granada and has been residing there for almost 20 years. It would be far-fetched to assume that someone who is a Mufti does not understand the community dynamics, even though they are irrelevant here, as no one asked him for a Fatwa on Whissin (a non-alcoholic beverage brewed in Granada).

    Also, the words of a Mufti take precedence over the non-Mufti endorsers of the work who have merely recommended the work, whereas Shaykh Abdur Rahman's statement is a legal verdict.

    6) "Did Syed Hossain Nasr over look it?" [Referring to the Kufr in his work]
    — No, he did not overlook it. He has *presented* his beliefs out in the open. Shaykh Abdur Rahman said about him: "Nasr is a Kafir who is outside the fold of Islam".

    7) "It would also be interesting to know who translated the passages to him and how he translated these passages"
    — A scholar who studied in Syria for almost a decade, now resides in Birmingham, UK. Passages were taken from several different places from The Study Quran book and were sent to him, he translated them into Arabic, contacted Shaykh Abdur Rahman about them, got the verdict from him, translated it into English and then I shared it here. It is on thestudyquranguide website too.

    8) "Where is the legal precedent for such a statement in classical works"
    — I posted the quote of Imam Malik from al-'Utbiyyah and commentary on it by Ibn Rushd from al-Bayan wa't-Tahsil. Imam Malik said, during a discussion warning against listening to those who have innovated (in 'Aqidah-Beliefs):
    "Don't give misled people access to your ears. You have no idea what kind of trouble that can create within you."

    Commenting on this, Ibn Rushd said:
    "The meaning of this is clear: he is warning him not to listen to such people's speech lest doubt enter their 'Aqidah (beliefs) by the ambiguous and dubious nature of their words."

    9) Lastly, let's put the endorsers under the same line of questioning and see where they stand:

    a) Can they read English? Yes
    b) Have they read the work? No, only few passages that were sent to them at first.
    c) Do they have links with the authors? I don't know, but from what I have seen and heard, they do seem to have links with the authors, but I may be wrong.
    d) Communities it is being advertised to? Scholars in the community don't need it and lay people can do without such a text which is confusing to begin with.
    e) Do they have awareness of some of the community dynamics? Community dynamics are irrelevant, but I fail to see how they understand the community dynamics in this issue anyways. We have scholars from the same region speaking against their endorsements. So clearly, it is not an issue of community dynamics and never has been nor will the Fatwa change based on the time and place.
    f) Is there a legal precedent for endorsing such works that contain statements of Kufr? No legal authority has been quoted by them so far. In fact, we have quite the opposite.


    {copied from Abdul Samad Ali fb page]

    This is the site referred to above: https://thestudyquranguide.wordpress.com
     
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  14. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Shaykh abdur Rahman b murabit al hajj has said that the study Qur'an consists of Kufr and that Hossein Nasr is a Kafir.
     
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  15. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

  16. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    Dear Brothers, Can you please summarize in short what is the issue with "The Study Quran" of Hamza Yusuf Hanson's Teacher Sayyed Hossein Nasr
    [​IMG]

    Threads should be merged

    Zaytuna Promotes ''The Study Quran' | - Sunniport

    caner dagli on 'the study Quran' | - Sunniport

    Hossein nasr, the perennialist's tafsir | - Sunniport

    and who are these people Asharis Assemble
    http://asharisassemble.com/2015/11/30/the-study-quran-and-muslim-intellectualism/


    Sheikh Atabek Shukrov Nasafi: Born in Uzbekistan while it was still part of the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, or as we called it here, the ‘USSR’ Sheikh Atabek Nasafi began his religious studies at the age of ten, in secret, which was the only way the heritage of a land which produced such luminaries such as Abu Laith As-Samarqandi, At-Tirmidhi, Imam Al-Bukhari and Imam Abu Mansur Al-Maturdi, to name a few could be preserved during the Communist era.

    He completed his studies aged 21 in various subjects including Arabic Language, Hadith, Fiqh, Tafsir and Tajweed at Madrasa Abul Qasim and Jamia Islamia in Uzbekistan. Thus, he was already considered a scholar when he arrived in the Middle East for higher studies.

    Along the way he studied under an unusually eclectic series of teachers, including Uthaymeen, Anwar Badakhshani and

    By 1998 he was residing in the historic city of Damascus where he continued his studies with some of the finest scholars of our time. Enrolling on the four year Al-Ijaza Al-Alimiyya programme at the Takhassus Institute affiliated to Al-Azhar University Egypt, his studies included: Sharh Ibn Aqeel with Sh. Atiyya, Sharh Fiqh al-Akbar with Sh. Adeeb Al-Kallas, Lubab fi Sharh Al-Kitab (also known as Quduri) with Sh. Abdullah Rabiah, Aqida with Sh. Saeed Ramadan al-Buti, Risala Qushariyyah with Sh. Abdul Fatah Bizm, Hadith with Sh. Sadiq Darwish, Da’wa with Sh. Tawfiq al-Buti as well as intensive private lessons with Shaykh Muhmd Adnan Darwish and covered Fath Bab Al-Inaya and Muwatta of Imam Malik. He also studied Shudhoor al-Dhab, Sharh Qatr Al-Nidah, Thufat Al-Mureed and Mukhtasar Al-Bukhari with Shaykh Rushdi Al-Qalam.

    He graduated in 2003, spending the final year at Al-Azhar University, gaining certification from the Faculty of Theology and Philosophy. He went on to teach in prestigious universities across the Middle East before gracing these shores.

    He is the founder of the Afiya Institute and Academy which seeks to promulgate authentic traditional Islamic teaching in Europe and is also affiliated with the Deen Institute which is an English apologetics and Dawah organisation.

    Shaykh Atabek supervised one of his student’s translations of The Initiation of Abu Laith As-Samarqandi and its commentary.

    Intriguingly, Sheikh Atabek is also a herbalist with a chain of teachers stretching back to none other than the iconic Ibn Sina.

    For more information:

    visit http://www.avicennaacademy.com or http://www.deeninstitute.com
     
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    if there was an english speaking mufti even 10% as learned as Ala Hazrat and knew about it, he would have issued a "man shakka fi kufrihi wa 3adhabihi ... " on nasr, faraz, hanson, dagli, lard, and anyone else who supports this filthy rag.

    i dunno if Asrar Rasheed or Monawwar Ateeq are muftis, but if they are, they should.
     
  18. Ashrafi1

    Ashrafi1 New Member

    With reference to Takfir, can we call Lumbard and Dagli Murtads?
     
  19. Inwardreflection

    Inwardreflection Well-Known Member

    This is something so dangerous. After reading some of what is written, this is outright Kufr and absolutely goes against Islam. We need to have a proper fatwa from every authority on the planet as one single document highlighting this teaching is completely against Islam and it is not permissible to read it.

    How and who can we contact for this verdict. We need to do this NOW. I feel sick
     
  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    seems like the poor chap is trying to make good after his jahil conman of a shaykh, keller ranted about Ala Hazrat's "exotic prophetology", but as they say, a leopard never loses its spots. i've underlined the deobandiyat there.

    http://seekershub.org/blog/2016/01/over-praise-the-prophet/

    the only thing complicated and burdensome here is having to look at faraz's ugly face, listen to his ugly voice, or trying to sit thru his narrations of his ugly pandering that he calls 'knowledge'

    faraz is a shaytan just like hanson. khadhalahullah.
     
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