imam ahmad rida and refuting the shi'a

Discussion in 'Bibliography' started by sunnistudent, Jan 10, 2011.

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  1. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Ala Hazrat gives a very simple reasoning at one place. He says" if the pious blood of prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) is the only deciding factor , then Sayyedina hasan and Sayyedina hussain ( radi allahu anhuma) should be higher than Sayyedina Ali radi allahu anhu, because the bodies of hasnain kareemain had blood of prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) where as this was not the case with Sayyeedina Ali radi allahu anhu.

    [ I have met shias who place sayyedina Husain radi allahu anhu higher than Sayyedina Ali radi allahu anhu].

    Further, children born through other daughters of prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) who were married to sayyedina Uthman radi allahu anhu should also be higher , isn't it?

    I want to know how come all shias who call themself as 'syed' are always Husaini? Ever met a hasani shia on internet?


    For my personal information, I want to know about Syed Abdul Qadir sahab of UK , is he hasani or hussaini? And who was his peer e tariqat ?
    Any website which has all this information so that I can read?

    And this is purely for academic purpose.
  2. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

  3. Please do share it with us . . .

    I think they should be published as quickly as possible, in sha Allah.
  4. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Ala hazrat has mentioned about this in one of his book along with the topic with which this book( now lost) dealt.

    People out side bareily have more books/mauscripts/rare work of Ala hazrat.It is a long and not so pleasant story to share with.There are still many books of ala hazrat which are lying in manuscript form. Scholars have only read about those book name.

    I know a couple of these people and I have seen these rare manuscripts

    Mawlana Jalaluddeen (rh) was a student of Mawlana Sardar Ahmed (rh) ,muddith e pakistan. The book which has been published is by the son of Mawlana Jalaluddeen (rh).
  5. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Because Imam Ahmad Rida mentions it in his other works. He also mentions the size.

    These works were written when he was in his twenties. That is why his khulafaf may not have had copies.
  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    How is that so brother? And if there are no traces of it, how do we know that it did in fact exist?

    What about his personal library in Bareily? I heard it contains some of his works that never made it to the presses but his khalifa's are aware of them and they also consult them*.

    So didn't any of his khalifas and murids keep the copy of the work you mention, specially senior khalifas like Mufti A3zdham Hind or Mawlana Abdul Aleem Siddiqi or Mawlana Amjad Ali Azmi?

    Is there any work by Mufti A3zdham Hind refuting the rafidis?

    *Regarding his other works that never made it to the presses - it is understandable that due to financial constraints that might be the case at some point in time. But what about now? Are there any efforts being made to have those unpublished works of Ala Hazrat published for general public's benefits. Personally, I would even want them to be uploaded on the net.
  7. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Ala Hazrat wrote a huge work refuting the shias/ tafzilis and talking about the virtues of the first two calipha of Islam in about more than 1000 pages. This is lost and there is no trace of it.

    Later he condensed it into a shorter work called Matla al Qamarayn.

    In India only one person has this manuscript which again is not complete.

    In pakistan, the son of Mawlana Jalaluddeen qadri (rh) had this manuscript ,which he has published very recently that is why most people are not aware of it. Infact , leading scholars are also under the impression that this work has not been published. How ever the work has just been published from Khariyan, Pakistan. But again this is not the complete work and it has missing pages at many places.

    A very young scholar did takhrij and both the works ( original and takhrij version) is now published from Lahore very recently.

    Please note, this has missing pages as mentioned before.

    The work was in 2 volumes . Vol 1 had pages 1 to 38 and then missing pages.

    Vol 2 had more than 100 pages which is published.

    Insha Allah ,it will be uploaded in 3 days on internet and in India it might be published before the urs of Ala hazrat .

    We later plan to compare the published text with the indian manuscript ( which are few pages) and if the missing pages from published text is those pages which is in India , then insha Allah soon we will get it published completely.

    Lets see.
  8. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    that's a good question brother.
  9. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    i think you've hit the nail on the head, brother AbdalQadir.
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    If they are giving childishly rational and circumstantial proofs like superiority of lineage or marriage to Sayyidatina Batool radi Allahu 3anha, paternity of Hasanayn, radi Allahu 3anhumaa, manifestation of abundant karamaat at the hands of Mawla Ali radi Allahu 3anhu, etc. - then yes this one line, being a rudimentary axiom, demolishes any and every proof they come up with.

    This is because afdaliat is contingent to Allah's fadl. The simple proof that nullifies all rational/logical deductions or circumstantial evidences is the simple one line - "Because Allah (or His Prophet) said so!" Remember, this is the same reason why the angels prostrated to Adam, 3alaihis salam.

    And there are plentiful ahadith establishing this fadl of Sayyidina Siddiq radi Allahu 3anhu above all mankind other than ambiyaa, all based on "Because the Prophet said so" (3alaihis salawaatu was salam)

    If I remember correctly, Mujaddid Alf Thani also talks about this fact openly that Sayyidina Mawla Ali karram Allahu wajhahul kareem exhibited far more karaamatic feats than the Shaykhayn radi Allahu 3anhumaa (at least as far as recorded history goes) and yet their fadilah is above him. In fact, he used this point, to make the point that exhibition of plentiful karaamaat is not a determining factor in establishing rank in wilayah. It may be well possible that a higher status wali have lesser karamaat or may be even none, compared to a wali subordinate to him - and some other points. He also explains the reasons for Shaykhayn having not so many recorded karaamaat as Mawla Ali and their other responsibilities in the Prophet's court, 3alaihis salam. Allah knows best but this is as I remember.

    This is how I understand what your relative meant. Purely a personal take, and I stand to be corrected, but I think my logic makes sense insha Allah.
  11. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Takhliq here could be referring to the lineage.

    Matla alQamarayn is not in Fatawa Ridwiyya. Where is this work available from? I heard it is not complete.
  12. physical perfections are not the criteria for superiority?

    perhaps it means that superiority and rank are determined by Allah and His Habib صلى الله عليه وسلم alone and therefore any particular perfections of Mawla Ali, for example his physical strength :as: being greater than any other Sahabi, does not mean overall he is the greatest of the Sahaba...

    Allah knows best.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    a relative of mine obtained a copy of maTla' al-qamarayn yesterday and went through the contents page. he saw one of the topics and said this one heading has answered everything. it said:

    takhleeqi kamaalaat madaar e afzaliyat nahiN

    does anyone know why this has closed the case of tafzil? he said tafzilis can say what they want now; this one sentence demolishes their every proof.
  14. Abu al-Nasr

    Abu al-Nasr Guest

    JazakAllah for making this available for the non-Urdu speaking world. The event of the debate leaves no room for suggesting otherwise on the official position of Imam Ahmad Raza Khan.

    If anyone has access to the exact reference provided, then please do make it available for all to read and check.
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    if there are mistakes in book names, please forgive them and let me know.

    Attached Files:

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