Is the UK considering cremation of Muslims?

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by AbdalQadir, Mar 24, 2020.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Masala # 35 in Bahare Shariat (Tayammum ka Bayan in Book 2, DI online reading) says the deceased can be given tayammum if water isn't available or if the deceased is a lady and no washing ladies are available.

    qiyas needs to be done on specific corona victims under expert medical advice if the virus can escape dead bodies.


    [​IMG]
     
    Aqdas likes this.
  2. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    Just seen a message from Naz Shah MP, the cremation suggestion is off the table now. She no longer needs to push for an ammendment
     
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i suggest that the title of the thread be changed to "last rites of Muslim victims of COVID-19"

    there are serious things we need to consider.

    i'm sure most of you would have seen the video of the person giving tayammum to a deceased person who died due to COVID-19

    we need to consider all sorts of things, for both Muslim countries as well as countries with Muslim minorities (UK, india, etc.)

    - do we give ghusl?
    - do the pious Muslim doctors recommend against giving ghusl? is it really as bad as ebola that the virus can be transferred from dead bodies?
    - shrouding procedures as normal vs body bags?
    - handling of the deceased - can we let nonMuslim hospital or morgue staff handle our deceased if our own Muslims are understaffed in places where Muslims are in minority and we face a lot of deaths (Allah protect us)?
    - local situations and constraints and are all nonMuslims the same? - if UK Muslims let british christians or atheists or jews handle their dead in a somewhat professional duniyawi manner, can Muslim indians too afford the same rukhsah at the hands of the bhagva brigade in india? (fat chance as far as i'm concerned!)
    - namaz e janaza - can it be said by just one or two persons? or worst case scenario, can we pray besides the grave after burial? (i have no logic in mind right now, just posing a lot of questions)
    - delays at morgues - is it a good trade off in order to accord proper last rites?
    - that is, would we rather prefer our loved ones remain in the morgue for a month and get a full on ghusl, kafan, and namaze janaza after a 1 month wait vs a tayammum burial in a body bag by Muslim or nonMuslim staff of hospital and mosque and morgue? which option is more desirable Islamically when we have to choose between the two?
    - burial itself - again, how do we execute it with minimum hindrance to Islamic procedures if at all it requires any special handling of bodies?
    - in kafir countires, if we are understaffed or if the authorities place restrictions, can we let nonMuslims bury our deceased?
    - for burial too - is delay at the morgue in order to get full Islamic rites a viable tradeoff?
    - mass graves - what does Shari3ah say? there are places where people can't easily convert any empty land into burial ground regardless if you can afford to buy it or not.
    - i saw double or triple decker grave arrangements mentioned somewhere? is that ok? dig a very deep grave, place one body and fill it up somewhat. put another body on top of the first one and fill it up more; and so on. what do our fiqh books say? our beloved Hanafi imams have left no stone unturned in fiqh books. as opposed to keller in aqidah, in fiqh we are encouraged to think of any conceivable hypothetical scenario and answer fiqh questions.

    just some random thoughts i had just to make sure we are all better prepared. i didn't have any structured Islamic or other logic in mind when jotting down these points. it's just thinking loudly before re-organizing my thoughts and questions in a proper manner for a proper istifta. so forgive me if some of these questions are stupid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  4. sajid riasat

    sajid riasat Banned

    salam

    the govt needs to be ready for all possible scenarios
     
  5. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    They need the powers just in case. So once the bill goes through they'll have full powers to contain. Corona shouldn't get that bad though. It's not the fastest of bills, it is not yet approved (it will be) . If it was required in emergency the whole process would have been completed already. The UK wants to allow things to remain as normal as possible, it won't be forced upon people unless another level of containment is enforced
     
  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I understood that. My point was then why actually go through the trouble of working towards such legislation? Anything else they got in mind?
     
  7. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    They are unlikely to actually force cremations for this virus
     
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ... meaning?
     
  9. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    Broad ranging powers that are unlikely to be used for corona.
     
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Muslim scholars need to also consider ijtihad on what can be done if there are many deceased Muslims (may Allah forbid) and not enough burial spots or Muslim personnel to carry out last rites like washing shrouding and burials.

    Obviously we are repulsed by cremation. So other options like tayammum on the deceased or perhaps qiyas with Shuhadaa and 'as is' burial, mass Graves, repatriating bodies elsewhere (but the logistics and costs would be a major issue). Not playing mujtahid or suggesting anything other than some proactive ijtihad and solutions for a worst case scenario.

    Alhamdulillah they took proactive action by highlighting it before it's even read in the house.

    They should also be ready with some robust fatawa and plan of action if it does come to such a scary scenario.

    Allah help us.
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.
     
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Is the UK considering cremation of Muslims?
     

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