Islam & Evolution theory

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Unbeknown, Jun 18, 2020.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Perhaps dr. jalajel should read that book by myers et al. - to broaden his perspective instead of accusing us traditional Muslims and great scholars of past and present of "over-interpreting" scriptures and narrow-mindedness.

    From what I have understood so far, jel's gambit upends not just a single flask but actually brings the whole cabinet crashing down over our heads.

    If rationality does not entail takleef then what does?

    Did the so-called "non-Adamic homo-sapiens" posses free will or not? Would they be eligible for rewards and accountable for punishments? Why does the Qur'an repeatedly mention thaqalayn "the two groups" - "ins wal jaan" and not this third group?

    P.S: The doctor has a post publication notice at the bottom of the article - which tells us that his views haven't gone down well even with the kind of crowd that takes lessons from yaqeen.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Proponents of Theistic Evolution enjoy very good funding and support and maybe that's putting pressure on other religious groups to come up with their own versions of it - re-interpreting scriptures to somehow make them "palatable" to the modern ill-informed but overconfident "scientific-minded" Muslims.

    However, the problems with it are manifold on not just religious but also rational grounds.

    See this very good lecture for an easy intro to the subject

  3. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    this is the position called "theistic evolution" - and seems to be directly inspired by fellow "theistic evolutionists" among Christians.
  4. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    Wa Alaykum as Salam Wa RaHamatulLāhi wa Barakatuh,

    I wanted to know specifically about how we understand correlated events in light of this Hadith Sharif.
  5. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail Active Member

    Asalamu Alaikum dear brother Juwayni,
    Can you please highlight in my previous post, "that" which contradicts the hadith you posted?
    Just asking for my knowledge.

    Jazak Allah.
  6. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    @abu Hasan ,

    How do we understand this in the context of Hadith that are translated as follows:

    “I was a Prophet when Adam was between soul and body.”
    [at-Tabarani, Al-Mu’jam al-Kabir]
    [Al Khasa’is al-Kubra, vol.1, p.4]
    [Tirmidhî, Manâqib]

    (Taken form a popular Facebook page)
  7. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail Active Member

    A quick note on the usage of word "DIRECTLY"
    -Allah created Hazrat Adam (A.S) FROM CLAY ( and NOT exnihilo/out of nothing). ****

    -However, it is kufr to say that the first (noblest)man evolved or descended or came to be in the sense
    1) evolutions claim (According to evolutionists: SOIL on earth>First cell> multiple cells> plants>fish>animals> humans) OR
    2) the way we normally do (intimacy followed by birth).

    ****The Muˆtazilah said that the literal “my two hands” is an allegory referring to Aļļaah’s attribute of power. Sunnis in general rejected this interpretation, because all created things are created by Power, so by saying this, the idea of what is special about Adam is lost. Then those who spoke in detail about this said that this expression emphasizes that Aļļaah created Adam without correlated events, such as Angels shaping the clay. Why? Because the expression is like saying in English, “I did it with my own two hands,”meaning, I did it myself directly, without involvement of others. Of course, as we said above, in reality every single event is a separate creation created by Aļļaah, without influence of partnership of any kind. Thus the meaning here is that there were no correlated events of normal created cause, such as Angels shaping the form of the human with their limbs.

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    This person abu-turaab is presenting arguments which are very similar to one of those in the yaqeen article below - could they be connected in some way?
  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    He "suggests without compunctions" that the belief that there are two ... errm ... lineages of the "broader human family" (well, no taxonomy evolved yet to put it exactly - blame natural selection)

    Based on his definitions, one could be called Aadami and the other non-Aadami - two biologically indistinguishable sets.

    And what's more - the post-Adam human beings could also be the joint descendants of the two and you would't be able to tell

    Besides, you cant even claim that the earliest descendants of sayyiduna 'Adam ('alayhis salaam) were genetically and biologically identical to us - just similar (heck, you've got to make room for your neanderthal cousins).
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  10. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    "14. That our father Adam, ‘ala nabiyyina wa ‘alaihis salam, is the first of humans and the first prophet of Allah, created DIRECTLY in his human form. Anyone who says that he ‘evolved’ or ‘descended’ from apes or ANYother plant, animal, human, any inanimate object, etc. – blasphemes against the Quran’s direct and explicit teachings, well established ahadith, and the ijma’ of the ummah – in addition to the blasphemy of dishonoring a prophet. We dissociate from all such people; and"ﷺ-message/the-sunni-manifesto-the-enemy-within/
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  12. Ma sha Allah beautiful answer by Allamah Mufti Muhammad Ashraf ul Qadri hafizahullahu Ta'ala may Allah Ta'ala protect our aakaabir aameen.
  13. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    but when you call these kafirs as kafirs, free speech is no longer applicable.
  15. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

  16. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    and this "mufassir" is going to speak on:

    Keeping the Text in Context: Reflections on Qur’anic Imperatives
    Mohamed Ghilan and Panel of Scholars

    In this closing session, the panel of scholars will share their thoughts on the Qur'anic mandate for American Muslims, addressing the divisive issues putting our community at risk and how to move forward.
  17. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Somebody asked him about his understanding of the creation of Sayyiduna Adam alaihis-salaam. He said:

  18. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    actually no akhi, it's not a proper atheist setting up the site with a Muslim name.

    it's a homo sapien who was probably born to Muslims. that's his facebook page -, and this is what he says about himself

    this homo sapien is supposedly an "intellectual" who is living the american dream

    he bizarrely believes in taqlid -

    the thing with all these misguided western "Muslim" "scholars" and "intellectuals" and their sheeple following can be summed up in 3 main scenarios:

    1) the minute you 'make it' in dunya with the american dream, you have the license to run your mouth on any topic of deen, and dumb sheeple who couldn't 'make it' as big as you would gleefully follow you or chant masha Allah at your lunacies. so you're a certified public accountant at deloitte & touche? that means you have the God-given right to voice an opinion on anything even remotely related to Islam, EVEN IF you aren't even remotely related to Islamic knowledge.

    2) you could emigrate to the west from some province or pind in the east, and claim to have sat with this and that wali there or have attained education in this or that traditional institute there, and the sheeple from that particular area back home (now living in the west) would pledge their allegiance to you, no questions asked. this happens all the time with more ethnicities than you think. Desis, Somalians, Arabs, Turks etc.

    3) you could just come out of the woodwork and claim you spent some years or months gaining a traditional Islamic education in some exotic locations of Islamic heritage - the Arab Maghreb, Yemen, Samarkand, Damascus, Bukhara, etc.... copy and paste a few geometric patterns of Ottoman or safavid art onto some posters, some pictures from the un-industrialized, in touch with nature countryside of an eastern destination, and advertise a "lecture" or "conference" or "seminar" or "workshop" with you as the super exotic raised-in-the-west-trained-in-the-east "expert" completely in touch with both sides of the ocean, who can feel the pulse of the western Muslim - and you're in business. bring in a bought and paid for wide-eyed Arab stooge to support your cause (and you support his), and that will pretty much stamp and seal your credibility. i know of people who haven't spent a day at an Islamic school and can't read and write their names in Arabic, who claim to have studied under all sorts of shuyukh in all sorts of locations, and they call themselves as imam, and shaykh, and hoca, and 'experts' on the works of Imam Ghazali, etc. but who's checking

    this is the little that i've seen from Muslim life in the west.


    of course there are also many many genuine Muslim scholars and good people too, both imported and home grown, who aren't misguided.
    Ghulam Ali, Bazdawi and Unbeknown like this.
  19. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    and angels are actually butterflies.............


    these seem to be atheists who are setting up such websites with muslim names.
  20. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

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