Leaving the faith

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Ghulam e Mustafa, Feb 27, 2015.

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  1. Ghulam e Mustafa

    Ghulam e Mustafa Active Member

    Because they follow their Nafs, they only think that they are right. They don't even listen to what our learned scholars says. Quran say obey Allah,His Messenger and those in authority ( scholars/fakhihs ).
    They only follow what's they have find right not What Allah commanded.
    They follow their Nafs like shaitan did why should I prostrate to Adam (Alaihisalam)?
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    example of how insecure youth fall for sophisticated nonsense:

    the clip below starts at the relevant part- 20:57

  3. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    but you are right, devs have done marketing better than sunnis

    like most modern day marketing practices - they have used lies, half-truths, manipulations, psychological mind tricks and even 'drama' to build a 'consumer' base - so no surprise that the sunnis haven't had as much success, they won't take the path of the devs just because it appears to work, after-all, "Fools rush where the angels fear to tread".

    they might appear 'successful', but the fact is that their batins are empty, ragged and dark, there's no true happiness or joy for liars and the people whose hearts are blind to the core of Islam, the greatness of Allah ('azzawajal) and the honor of His Prophets ('alayhimussalaam) and His friends (ridwanullahi'alayhim).



    Because the truth is:


    And all that is beyond this are like the houses of spiders - weak and temporal.
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    as i said your reasoning is weird and patent ignorance.
    is your religion based on the opinion of arab scholars or upon principles?

    most of these arab sunni scholars have beliefs and agree to concepts which devbandis (in their wahabi talabbus in subcon) scorn sunnis (aka barelwis). take the case of ilm al-ghayb. shaykh muhammad ja'afar al-kattani's voluminous "jala'a al-qulub" is far more extensive than "dawlah" of alahazrat. do the deobandi elders have the courage to call him the same names that they gratuitously call alahazrat. what about shah waliyullah and shah abd al-aziz dihlawi and rahmatullah kirwani and haji imdadullah sahib?

    not only did shah [edited to] abd al-Aziz sahib do urs - but he wrote a refutation of a contemporary mufti abdul Hakim punjabi who called it bid'ah. (found in zubdat an-naSayiH).

    that liar/slanderer abul-hasan nadwi slandered all sunni ulama (who opposed his devbandi elders) in his biased work; and unfortunately, arab ulama of our time have been taken in by this deceit. the deobandis will pay for it on judgement day, but these sunni scholars will also not escape questioning. how could they blindly believe lies about a major scholar without cross-verification? the least they could have done is investigate; and in this aspect, they have failed as scholars. but this is not without precedent.

    it is a well-known anecdote that imam awzayi warned abdullah ibn al-mubarak to keep away from a "man of bid'ah" named abu Hanifah. ibn al-mubarak gave him some papers attributing authorship to nu'man ibn thabit. awzayi said: 'go back and take as much as you can from this great scholar'. ibn al-mubarak said: 'this is the man you forbade me from taking from' [paraphrased from memory].

    look what happened to keller - he believed in all the lies fed by his devbandi murids and made an ass of himself. and the sufi sahib does not even have the decency to retract.

    main na kahta tha ke suHbat dev ki achchi nahiN

    but you are right, devs have done marketing better than sunnis - this is an old topic/objection and has been answered already.

    there is a hadith in muslim sharif about: 'majority of people will be romans' [wa'r rum aktharu'n naas / romans could be interpreted as christians; but it can also be stretched to mean western; Allah ta'ala knows best]. when amr ibn al-aaS (raDiyallahu anhu) challenged the narrator (mustawrid al-qurashi), he replied: "i am only repeating what i heard from RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam".

    hazrat amr said: in that case that is because of four reasons. (actually he added a fifth). those reasons were:

    - they are well-prepared to respond in times of tribulation [shall we say: political stability]
    - quick to recover from disasters [asr'ahum ifaqatan ba'ada muSibah / variants: ajbar an-nas or aSbar al-nas]
    - they give more welfare to poor, orphans and the weak [khayruhum li miskinin wa yatimin wa Dayif]
    - they will recuperate from defeat/flight and be able to mount a fierce attack [karratan ba'ad farrah]
    - and the fifth is a good quality that protects them from oppression of their kings [or rulers; that is, they enjoy freedom]

    citing this hadith in his nihayah ibn kathir says: "this proves that romans will become muslims in the end-times."

    my point is that ibn kathir did not say: "they have these good qualities, so everyone will become christians." rather he implied that these are good qualities of muslims - and if romans do all this, most likely they will become muslims. that is because he had unflinching faith that muslims and islamic principles are correct.

    that is one should base their belief on principles; and adapt everything else to that. not act like a herd of goats rushing where everyone rushes.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  5. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    If Arab Sufis were not as complacent as their Indian counterparts (Bareilawis), why has Wahabism dominated the Middle East?

    The Sufi Arabs being impressed by Deobandis is a reflection of the decline of Sunnism East and West.

    Most Sufi groups in Arab world and India are Jahil cults.
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  6. IbnKhan786

    IbnKhan786 New Member

    • why do you like deobandis so much?[/QUOTE]

    I'm just saying they've worked harder, hence why there's an increase in number.

    Famous al-Azhar scholar: (skip to 4:00)

    I've asked a few figures (from the Arab world) in regards to Imam Ahmad Rida Khan here are some responses:

    R1: احمد رضا خان زعيم البريلويين كان صوفيا حنفيا و عند اصحابه غلو في التصوف و تشدد مع المخالفين لهم

    R2: نحن لا نبدي رأيا في أي عالم من علماء الأمة. وإنما نناقش آراء وأفكارا.

    R3: نقول إنه من أئمة الهدى ممن خدموا الديانة ودافعوا عنها ولا يسلم أحد من خطأ أو شطط إلا المعصوم صلى الله عليه وسلم

    نروي عن الإمام أحمد رضا خان البريلوي من طريق شيخنا السيد عبد الرحمن الكتاني عن أبيه عن الشيخ أحمد رضا خان

    كما نروي عن مشايخ الديوبندية وغيرهم من طرق مشايخ آخر ونأخذ الخير عن الجميع ولا نتعرض لما لا نخبر.
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    charity begins at home. why don't you begin by learning some reasoning?

    going by your logic, as KS would say: deobandis are all sexual predators. reference: chicago maulvi. anyway, the whole world knows that wahabis are terrorists.

    so what is your point?
    yes, you should see tarik jameel. he produces such analogies and descriptions that no sunni in history has managed. he believes in a god that descends to earth, holds people and shakes them by their shoulders. tarik al-Jameel [means one who rejects al-Jameel] is their big preacher - or a motivational speaker, whatever.

    feel free to browse, download books from here and here. (most translations are from sunni sources, but there are deobandis and others too here and there)

    why do you like deobandis so much?
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  8. IbnKhan786

    IbnKhan786 New Member

    Point taken. One of the reasons why sunnis become wahabis/deobandis is what the focus of ones din is.

    Baraylawis (or those who believe to be from Ala Hazrat way) : Pirs and their charities, na'ts mehfils, production of new sufi cults

    Wahabis/Deobandis: focus on knowledge, translation works, less bad innovation (dancing in masjids etc). Not restricting work to Indo-Pak.

    The Arab world recognises the work of the deviants because they continued working in their dawah, as opposed to work done after the demise of Ala Hazrat.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    would you say there is totally no benefit in wine and gambling?
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  10. IbnKhan786

    IbnKhan786 New Member

    Would you say that there is totally no benefit from the Wahabis and Deobandis?- in terms of there contribution to the Islamic sciences.

    For example: Fiqh: Zafar Ahmad Tahanawi ('ila as-Sunan)

    Hadith: Commentaries on Hadith works by: Anwar Shah Kashmiri, Zakariyya Kandahlawi etc.

    Can't think of any wahabi examples maybe Ibn Taymiyyah.
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    because of zaleel mardoods like these zanadiq sufis http://sunniport.com/index.php?thre...qshbandi-spreading-the-love.12293/#post-51343,

    anyone who hasn't been fortunate enough to see authentic Ahlus Sunnah, or understand that Shari3at and Haqiqat are one and the same road without any branches, forks, or detours, can easily think sufism is just a dirty hippy cult and be easily swayed towards wahabism.

    at a fundamental level, of course the main reason is

    مَن يَهْدِ اللَّهُ فَهُوَ الْمُهْتَدِ ۖ وَمَن يُضْلِلْ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ وَلِيًّا مُّرْشِدًا
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    why do people exist?
  13. IbnKhan786

    IbnKhan786 New Member

    Why do people become Wahabis?

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