Morals, values, ethics, principles - Islam vs. non-Islam

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by sunni_porter, Apr 19, 2017.

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  1. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Good talk on the topic by Dr. Shadee (title is "Muslims Between Faith and Doubt").
  2. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Good post on the topic by Dr. Shadee:

    "Whoever removes a difficulty for a Muslim, Allah removes a difficulty from him on the Day of Judgement. And whoever covers the flaw of a believer, Allah covers his flaw in the dunya and akhira. And Allah is constantly in the aid of a abd, so long as the abd is in the aid of his brother."

    In these social matters, Islam does not give us something good that people didn't know or that couldn't have been deduced by intellect or common sense. Rather, Islam gives us the *justification* for it. All humans care for their own interests first and the way to transform a selfish moment into a selfless one in this life, is through the menacing immanence of a tough Day of Judgement. You want it to be easy? Help others. Sacrifice a small portion of this life, and your eternity becomes easy. That's a great deal. So even if I'm 100% selfish and I'm lazy and I don't even know you, I'll take that deal and help you over myself. Then once you do it, you discover that helping others feels so good you want to do it again just for the satisfaction of it. But nonetheless, humans fluctuate and we might fall back into a moment of selfishness, so we need to hear those narrations again and again to get us off the couch.

    Now the atheists tell us that religion is basically a lie to get people to do good. A philosopher once said (I think Heidegger) that even if Judgement Day wasn't true, you'd have to invent it otherwise there is no justification for sacrificing from this life for other people.

    This is what we have: a *teaching* which is very different from a law. A teaching is something you believe and act upon based on personal conviction. You can't legislate goodness. This is why kind-hearted atheists have to push socialism so much. They know you can't get the rich to give from themselves---only a few do---so you have to force it through laws. We say no. We have a small amount that's obligatory, and the rest is through teaching. Taking care of your family, your elders, your neighbor, the people who pray next to you in the local mosque is a teaching we believe is part of life one cannot do without. And every khutba and prayer we recite about Allah and Afterlife so that fuels our motivation and justification.

    Atheists: you tell us it's all a lie. Okay. So let's take it all away, what do you have in its place? There's no alternative. Even if we considered your belief, that we all die and nothing happens, no afterlife or nothing, then this "lie" at least gave us a good worldly life, filled w generous people who sacrificed for one another.

    In closing, the challenge still stands for atheists. Bring us a solid *teaching* that stands the test of time---not a law---that justifies charity and sacrifice without God and Afterlife. It will never happen. Guaranteed.
    Ghulam Ali and Noori like this.
  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Ideally in their prebirth, then at birth, then in early childhood, middle childhood, late childhood, and through all the stages of life until (theoritically) death. however, it is never late before death.
    Ghulam Ali and Unbeknown like this.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    ; )
    Aqdas likes this.
  5. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    With respect to the topic of the thread (and items mentioned in post #6), has the Islamic concept of these issues ever been a part of the general Islamic curriculum? Has it always been formally taught to our children/youth at home or madrasahs? What about full-time Islamic schools?

    For example, instructing youth to not only stop and stay away from evil, but explaining to them what is considered evil and how we know it's evil.

    At what age should these concepts be introduced to them?

    Is there a Sunni text that has been traditionally used to teach these topics?

    Can members kindly share their experiences and resources used.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    ok. i thought you were the same question on different threads.

    you expect people to post links on different topics on different threads. go ahead.
  7. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    @abu Hasan : why merge the above into this thread?
  8. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    There were two other threads that have been merged with this one:
    • Justice, equality, good, evil, rights, freedom, choice
    • Nationality, ethnicity, race, culture, heritage, religion
    And so same request - can members post links to books and speeches on this topic from Sunni ulema. Doesn't have to be actual PDF books, can be link to book available for purchase that covers the topic.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    links ok. don't post material - for fear of the draconic and utterly stupid DMCA.
  10. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    These are some good, concise videos that provide a high level overview of major 20th century wars - from Khan Academy
  11. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Can members post links to books and speeches on this topic from Sunni ulema
  12. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Can members post links to books and speeches on this topic from Sunni ulema
  13. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Can members post links to books and speeches on this topic from Sunni ulema

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