on ash'ari's ibanah and mutazili in thabat

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Unbeknown, Aug 25, 2016.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed New Member

    On this so-called claim regarding Shaykh al-Akbar (Rahimahullah) by this individual, I have checked two manuscripts of Mughni al-Muhtaj and did not find what he claims against Shaykh al-Akbar rahimahullah:


    تقي الدين السبكي كما في 'مغني المحتاج للشربيني 3/61': 'ومن كان من هؤلاء الصوفية المتأخرين كابن عربي وغيره فهم ضلال جهال خارجون عن طريقة الإسلام, فضلاً عن العلماء, وقال ابن المقري في روضه: إن الشك في كفر طائفة ابن عربي كف

    https://archive.org/stream/WAQ44502/mmmmam3#page/n59/mode/2up
    https://archive.org/stream/FP74111/03_74113#page/n59/mode/2up

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    The same author rahimahullah writes the following:

    الإمام الخطيب الشربيني (المتوفى : 977هـ)
    قال في كتابه
    "تفسير السراج المنير"
    "قال البقاعي: فمن قال عن عوج ما تقوله القصّاص فهو ضلال أشدّ ضلال، قال: وقائل ذلك هو ابن عربي صاحب الفصوص الذي لم يرد بتصنيفه إلا هدم الشريعة، وزاد في الحط عليه وعلى ابن الفارض وعلى الحلاج وعلى من شابههم، وأمر هؤلاء إلى الله تعالى، فإنه العالم بحقائق الأمور وما تخفي الصدور ." انتهى

    قلت :
    وهنا ينقل عن محيي الدين ابن عربي فائدة قال :
    "فائدة: قال ابن عربي في «الفتوحات»: خلق الله الناس على أربعة أقسام: قسم لا من ذكر ولا من أنثى وهو آدم عليه السلام، وقسم من ذكر فقط وهو حوّاء، وقسم من أنثى فقط وهو عيسى عليه السلام، وقسم من ذكر وأنثى وهو بقية الناس."

    (Taken from http://www.aslein.net/showthread.php?t=16253)

    I also googled the alleged `ibarat in question from Mughni al-Muhtaj and found only quotes from pseudo-Salafi websites:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ومن...i9DITIjwT8j5qABg&start=0&sa=N&biw=970&bih=426
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017 at 8:05 AM
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    lol

    pretty 'high level' that.

    we do get jokers once in a while...
     
    Bazdawi likes this.
  3. qadribarakati

    qadribarakati Banned

    I read the actual opinion. DOUBLE STANDARDS

    Major Asharis scholars did outright takfir of Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi
    I can provide you with scanned pages. Do you agree and follow the actual opinions of major Ashari scholars on Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi ?

    Here is a quote from Imam Taqi Al-Din Subki on the Tafir of Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi
    تقي الدين السبكي كما في 'مغني المحتاج للشربيني 3/61': 'ومن كان من هؤلاء الصوفية المتأخرين كابن عربي وغيره فهم ضلال جهال خارجون عن طريقة الإسلام, فضلاً عن العلماء, وقال ابن المقري في روضه: إن الشك في كفر طائفة ابن عربي كفر'
    Would that make you and Imam Ahmed Raza Khan also kafir according to Imam Taqi Al-Din Subki for failing to do takfir.

    Major Maturidi scholars did outright takfir of Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi
    I can provide you with scanned pages. Do you agree and follow the actual opinions of major Maturidi scholars on Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi ?

    Major Mutazili scholars did outright takfir of Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi
    I can provide you with scanned pages. Do you agree and follow the actual opinions of major Mutazili scholars on Shaykh Al-Akbar Ibn Arabi ?

    All of them (Ashari Maturidi Mutazili) did takfir based on the principles of theology (ilm usul ilm kalam)

    Even the literalist Hanbalis did the same.

    What do you say ?
    DOUBLE STANDARDS

    That's not all.

    Imam Malik called Imam Ibn Ishaq Dajjal. Do you follow Imam Malik on this ?

    Many called Imam Abu Hanifah deviant and many other evil things. These are from the scholars like Imam Bukhari, Imam Awzai..
    قال الأوزاعي لما مات أبو حنيفة :الحمد لله إنه لكان ينقض الإسلام عروة عروة.
    وقال سفيان الثوري [ما ولد بالإسلام مولود أشأم على أهل الإسلام منه].
    وبصفحة 569 تجد مدون بها: حينما ذكر أبي حنيفة عند مالك بن أنس قال كاد الدين، وقال مالك إن أبا حنيفة كاد الدين، ومن كاد الدين فليس له دين. وقال أيضا : الـداء العضـال الهلاك في الدين، وأبو حنيفة من الداء العضال.

    ـ قال البخاري عن الإمام الأعظم أبو حنيفة النعمان: كان مرجئا, سكتوا عن رأيه وعن حديثه [ التاريخ الكبير 8/81] (ولا يخفى على احد ان البخاري ومسلم لم يأخذا عن ابو حنيفة).
    here is a complete list if you want to be honest about practice what you preach https://www.facebook.com/ahmed1maher1/posts/468231026594977

    That's not all.

    I can continue with more examples, but your hate has blinded you.

    As for thabat, then what was Shaykh Al-Islam Zakariyyah Ansari doing with Mutazili books ? Why did he take Ijaza and passed on to others evil heresies ?


    You are just new to these high level things, it will go over your head. come back to me when you figure out how to deal with the

    DOUBLE STANDARDS
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    keep your thabat and read actual opinions.
     
    Shahzaib and Aqdas like this.
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    haytami on zamakhshari in his al-zawajir: "the standard bearer of the mutazilah on the path to hell"

    1/104


    zawajir 1-104.jpg
     
    Shahzaib and Aqdas like this.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    for example, not just a sanad to narrate - shaykh al-islam wrote a sharh on isaghuji.

    does it mean he followed porphyry?

    isaghuji,p1.jpg
     
    Shahzaib, Noori and Aqdas like this.
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    see you are not all that innocent as you tried to present yourself. at least have the courage to wear it on your sleeve man (that is if you are one). clearly, you don't have the courage to claim that you are a neo-mutazili.

    yes, mutazilah are heretics. you can ask me again if you have not understood it.

    ---
    what is there to explain? zamakhshari wrote a number of books - shaykh al-islam is simply mentioning that he has acquired knowledge of these books through this chain. that does not mean he is a follower of zamakhshari nor that he agrees with his heresies. actually, you do not even know what the thabat and its ijazahs mean.

    he has actually listed all the books he has permission for [to read teach whatever]. it doesn't mean that he learned everything in those books and is fully in agreement with him.

    most madaris in the indian subcontinent in their nisab teach books like isaghuji - which is isagoge of porphyry. does that mean that all of these people are followers of porphyry or that their religion is influenced by porphyry or that they evolved from porphyry?

    so what did this thabat say? it just said: "i was informed of and given permission to books of zamakhshari by many of my teachers".

    if you want to know what their opinion about zamakhshari was, you don't go looking at it in the thabat, you look in their opinions, in their fatawa. here is what shaykh ibn Hajar said in his fatawa al-Hadithiyyah, p242.


    fwhadithiya,p242.jpg

    so there.

    this is a cheap shot. you don't even know the meaning of 'plagiarized' - this is a post-modern accusation. in the past, scholars were quite open and mentioned the sources and used them; they referenced where they thought was necessary, else, they just mentioned it.

    zamakshari was a master of the language - ulama took from him or his tafsir, anything that was not pushing his iytizal.

    you are so raw and uneducated, i don't have time to answer you silly objections. the best thing for you is to go rejoin the madrasah and abandon scammers who claim to put you on the pedestal of ijtihad.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2016
  8. qadribarakati

    qadribarakati Banned

    Ibana and Maqalat contains literalist and anthropomorphic statements and beliefs. If you say Hafiz Ibn Asakir quotes from Ibana in his tabyin that is also questionable. Ibana, Maqalat and Tabyin was written to please literalist hanbalis. The approach is anti-kalam following literalist way of ahmed ibn hanbal.

    Some claim the present day Ibana is the work of Imam Abul Hasan Al-Ashari

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    To summarize:
    * Some Asharis accept Ibana while some others reject
    * Those who accept Ibana and Maqalat is to please literalist Hanbalis (wahhabis Salafis)
    * Those who reject Ibana and Maqalat base their claim that it departs the way of Kalam

    Even the Deobandis reject Ibana and Maqalat.


    asanid_hajar_001.jpg asanid_hajar_025.jpg tabat_zakariya_2_001.jpg tabat_zakariya_2_313.jpg tabat_zakariya_2_314.jpg
    Shaykh Abu Hasan claims Mutazila are heretics, then explain the above in the Thabat of Shaykh Al-Islam Zakariyya Ansari.
    Jarallah Abu al-Qasim Mahmud ibn Umar al-Zamakhshari the author of Al-Kashshaaf 'an Haqa'iq at-Tanzil, how many have copied or plagiarized pages straight from his tafsir.
     

Share This Page