Pir Naseer-ud-Din Shah Sahib going mast

here is ala hazrats fatwa on these kind of gatherings

Ahmed Raza Khan in regards to qawwali (to convince his A Fatawa of Moulana followers)
Question : (Moulana's one visitor writes) : Immediately after I left you, I went to the Musjid for Maghrib Namaaz. After Namaaz, a friend of mine took me to an "urs" where I saw a lot of people listening to few qawwals who were reciting poems, songs and playing the sarangi (fiddles) and a drum.
Will Rasulullaah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and the Auliyah (Pious predecessors) be happy with such an action or not ?

Is such qawwali permissible or not ?
If it is permissible, then in which way ?
Answer :
Such qawwali is HARAAM. All those present are sinful and their sin is upon the organisers and the qawwals. h3(p. 33/1 Ahkam -e- Shariat)
Second Fatawa of Moulana Ahmed Raza Khan Saheb.

Question : - Is this narration correct that Hadhrat Muhboob Ilahi (R.A) stood up bare - head in his grave, cursing the singers ?
Answer : - This incident is of Hadhrat Khuwaja Qutbuddeen Bakhtiyar Kaki (R.A) when qawwalli was taking place in the Majlis - Sima at his Mazaar Shareef. Nowadays people have invented and added on many forms of entertainment in it like dancing, etc whereas in those days there were no musical instruments. Hadhrat Sayed Ibrahim Ameerji (R.A) (a buzrugh of the silsila of our elders) was once seated outside / away from the Majlise - Sima. A pious person requested him to present himself at the Majlise - Sima, Hadhrat replied : Focus or turn your attention towards the Buzrugh (the grave soul of Khuwaja Quthbuddeen Bakhtiyar Kaki (R.A) ). If he is pleased then I will join you. Thus when he made muraqabah (mediation)
towards the Mazaar, he saw that Hadhrat is perturbed in the grave and he is indicating towards the qawwals saying : "These evil people have caused me to be perturbed ."
Upon his return, Hadhrat Ameerji (R.A) told him before he could say anything : 'Did you see ?
(Malfoozat p. 90/1) (Abstract of Fatawa Rahimiyah p. 330/2)

 

Nabi (صلى الله عليه وسلم) has said: "There will be a people of my Ummah (nation) who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk, wine - drinking and the use of musical instruments." (Bukhari - 837 /2)

couldnt this hadith be attributed to these people for they seem to be doing the same thing

 

that was not translated by me but I may have posted it on SF a few years ago. it was translated by Omar H - I do not have the book al-Dallt f Sam al-lt

 

Assalaamu 'Alaykum..

Did u quote this for me Abu Fadl Bhai.. I know i did not say anything wrong, but if did, plz do point out.. (if u can find out)..

ALLAH HAAFIZ

 

actually never mind.......

- abu abbas

 

unfortunately, the below translation is not only deeply flawed, but makes audacious allegations that border on slander. people senselessly forward whatever they come across on the net without verifying and confidently make claims based on such spurious sources.

our religion requires you to be very cautious in whom you take from and how you further it. 'it is sufficient for a man to be a liar when he circulates everything that he hears'.

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another problem with many translations is the false meanings assigned to arabic words. thus, sama'a (hearing of poetry in a good voice) is routinely translated as music. and people pick it up from there to further their own opinions.

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mistranslations give rise to misconceptions. for example, qawwali simply means recitation and qawwali in our times is the name for a distasteful singing of fussaq with musical instruments.

a friend once asked me about a car in yusuf alayhi's salam's time. because the qur'an says: 'and a sayyarah came.' i explained to him that sayyarah was 'caravan' in the past age; but is a 'car' in modern usage. one cannot claim that it was a motor-car. an urdu speaker cannot adopt it to his own, and claim that it was a planet that came to yusuf because sayyarah is a planet in urdu.

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as far as i know, shaykh abd al-ghani an-nablusi's position is the same as other ulama and he did not permit 'music' as it is widely known; that is musical instruments (other than duff). alahazrat uses his opinion from al-hadiqah extensively in his own risalah, masayil e sama'a. his hadiqah an-nadiyyah has a lengthy chapter on this.

 

The following is a fascinating translated excerpt from the Wali of Allah Shaykh `Abd al-Ghani al-Nablusi's book Ibah al-Dalalat fi Sami` al-Alat [pages 88-91, Dar al-Fikr edition] where he makes mention of some Sahaba [may Allah be pleased with them all] who apparently listened to "music" - enjoy!!

[Disclaimer: I do not necessarily agree or disagree with the esteemed shaykh's views]



It was narrated that Birr ibn Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) as spoken by the Hafiz Abu Na`im, that he used to listen to music.

It was narrated of `Abdullah ibn Ja`far ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) that he listened to popular beneficial singing. His position was narrated by every single one who prohibited the question of the fuqaha, and the huffaz, and the historians. And Ibn `Abd al-Barr said in al-Isti`ab that he used to watch the singers. And the Ustadh Abu Mansur al-Baghdadi said in his writing on music: “`Abdullah ibn Ja`far used to… listen to music.” The Commander of the Faithful (the Caliph) when he entered on Ibn Abi Talib used to look at him. Ibn Qutayba said in his book al-Rakhsat: Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him) entered upon ibn Ja`far as he had promised, and he had seen with him an instrument with a rock. He (Mu`awiyah) said “what is this O Ibn Ja`far?” and he (Ibn Ja`far) replied “this is a musical instrument which I compose poetry…” and so he played the instrument and started to sing poetry:

Do you not have thankfulnesss for the one who made you
And then created your mind for wisdom?
And renewed from you what has become your character
Throughout time – for He who the future and past are in his hands!

And it was said: So Mu`awiyah started moving his leg, and `Abdullah told him “did you not move your leg?” And so he said “from the generosity of the musician.”

Al-Mawardi also spoke of this in his al-Hawa: Indeed Mu`awiyah and `Umar ibn Aws (may Allah be pleased with them) were present with `Abdullah ibn Ja`far (may Allah be pleased with him) when he increased in the listening of singing… for indeed when they entered upon him the instrument went silent. And thus Mu`awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him) said to him “return to what you were just upon!” and so he returned, and sung and played the instrument and Mu`awiyah moved his leg…

It was narrated by al-Zubayr ibn Makar with his chain: that `Abdullah ibn Ja`far (may Allah be pleased with him) would go to his house happily to listen (to music) and those who heard it swore that there was not the singing of anyone except that it was in his house!

What has also been narrated from `Abdullah ibn Zubayr (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated from Abu Talib al-Makki that he used to listen to singing. And it was narrated that Shaykh Taqi al-Din ibn Daqeeq al-`Iyyad in his book “Iqtanas al-Sowanah) in his chain upon Wahab ibn Keesan that he said “I heard `Abdullah ibn Zubayr listen to singing. And it was said by `Abdullah: “And what about music – people of the Muhajireen that listen. Imam al-Haramayn and Ibn Abu al-Damm narrated that it has come from the historians from the recorded that they were possessed by `Abdullah ibn Zubayr musical instruments and that Ibn `Umar entered into his house and saw these instrument so he said “what are these oh Sahaba of Rasul Allah?” and so he played them and Ibn `Umar then said “these are a measure of behavior” and Ibn Zubayr replied “to measure with them intelligence!”

Hassan ibn Thabbit (may Allah be pleased with him) saw Abu Faraj al-Asfahani with his chain to Mahraz ibn Ja`far… was narrated to have played musical instruments.

Mughira ibn Sha`abat (may Allah be pleased with him) it is said that singing was heard from him from Abu Talib al-Makki (may Allah have mercy on him) in his book “Quwwat al-Qalb” and Shaykh Taj al-Deen al-Fazari and other than them.

And these are the recorded instances of the Sahaba playing musical instruments [`Abdullah ibn Ja`far, Mu`awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan listening, `Abdullah ibn Zubayr, Hassan ibn Thabbit, and Mughira ibn Sha`bat] and now we will move onto tabi`een playing musical instruments:

It has been recorded of them Sa`eed ibn al-Musayb, and his father would hit the instruments with their wara` (scrupruolusness in fear of Allah) and they are the best of Tabi`een after Uways with those who witnessed the presence of Uways. He was one of the 7 Fuqaha and he used to listen to songs.

It was narrated by Hafiz Abu `Umaru ibn `Abd al-Barr with his chain that Sa`eed ibn Musayb came by one of the azzakat of Makkah and so he listened to al-Khidr singing in the house of the Qadi ibn Wa’il and he was to say the poetry… and so Sa`eed hit his foot!

`Amaru al-Sha`bi (may Allah have mercy upon him) and he was one of the greatest Tabi`een scholars and of knowledge and he was spoken of by Qadi Abu Mansur: that he would divide the sounds unto the first portion/section and the second portion/section and those after it from portion/section.”

And `Abdullah ibn Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Abi Bakr al-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) as narrated by Qadi Abu Mansur: Ibn Abi `Ateeq was a Faqih and would know of songs and he used to listen to very much and this is well known and the people of narrations do not differ upon this with a good chain. And he used to be very happy. He would engage in fiqh and zuhd and worship. And the two Shaykhs narrated from him in their two Sahihs.

`Ata ibn Abi Rabbah and he was of the greatest of Tabi`een. And he with his knowledge, and his worship, and his zuhd, and his knowledge of the Sunnah just as Qadi Abu Mansur said of him: that he used to divide sounds into the first portion and into the second portion/section and what was after it from portions/sections. And Ibn Qutayba said “Indeed `Ata ibn Abi Rabah was with his son and he had with him an instrument and sang…”


[Translated by faqir]

 

The issue is not about the ikhtilaaf or some of the wrong practices but more about the arrogance and rude tongue being used on the forum, and disrespect of ulama.

 

Assalaamu Alaykum

Listen brothers we r arguing on a masalah that really is intricate.. Qawwali and sama' have been Datedback to Sarkaar Huzoor Nizaam-ud-Deen Mehboob-e-Ilaahi Rahmatullah 'Alayh when he called Huzoor Ameer Khusru Rahmatullah 'Alayh as a Qawwaal.. There r many Khanqaahs where Sama' is an important part and parcel of their Duties..

But, Subhaan Allah, the Stance of Huzoor A'ala Hazrat Rahmatullah 'Alayh is in accordance of our Aslaaf and Sarkaar-e-Madeenah Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam.. and His Ashaab Karaam Hazraat Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anhumah.

But there r differences which extend upto centuries...

Once Hazrat Aurangzeb Rahmatullah 'Alayh was informed that Some Group of Malang perform Wajd, and got Haal when they here a particular Kalaam.. He then orderd all the Malangs to be put in a boat in the River Jamuna.. and orderd the Qawwal to recite the same Kalaam.. None of them got in the State of Wajd!! From then on he Banned Music and Dance in His Empire!!

There is another incidence.. One person went to a Great Wali (The name i am forgetting) and told that Falaan Hazrat (Sorry! Again I am Forgetting the Name of the Hazrat), gets in Haal (Wajd).. He immediately enquired taht whether he offers Salaah.. He said that Yes in the time of Salaah he gets completely alright, offers Namaaz and again gets the Haal.. Then The Hazrat told that "Yes.. This is the true Wajd.."

These 2 examples signify that getting in Wajd is alright if a person does not Omits his Salaah and Basic Duties!! And does not performs Activities that are Na Jaaiz..!!

I agree with Abu Hasan completely on this matter..!! Even if u permit it to some extent, what is the guarantee that the Awaam follows only the right part and the right way to listen to Sama'(if it is Jaayiz).. The Great Auliya-e-Karaam Hazraat 'Alayhe Rahmah when they listened to any Kalaam, and if u note their Mannerims dring the Kalaam, the circumstances, the environment and the Basic and Correct way, u will find a SKY and EARTH difference in their way of Sam'at and the way of the present SUITED BOOTED Juhalas..

An instance, When Saabri Bros. were singing the Kalaam "Taajadaar-e-Haraam" there were some instances when the audience to were shooted for a brief moment.. And lo!! what did i See!! Bepardaah women, Head unveiled, siiting in foremost chairs.. And the men!! They only can be called Suited Booted Juhala!! When during the Kalaam, Ghulaam fareed Saabri Marhoom was undergoing Hal, there were no Voices saying "Subhaan Allah"... there were Claps, Whistles, hootings, as if a Rock Band was performing!! But some people who had Strong Imaan in them Gave the Naara-e-Takbeer and Naara-e-Risaalat..!!

The Muslim society now is getting in the Grip of "The Notorious Westerners".. Today many people Listen to Qawwali which has no Connection to Islam at all.. The Fankaars today are not like Azeez Miyan Marhoom or Sabri Brothers.. Today if u see a Fankaar, he'll appear more a Model than a Person who is Really into the Kalaam which he is reciting, False Wajd, False haal..

Many kalaams are such that if pondered upon takes to Straight KUFR!!! LIke My Sarkaar A'ala Hazrat Raziallahu Ta'ala 'Anhu Said that He Preferred listening To The Naatiya Kalaams of Only to Hazraat.. The Reason bbeing that writing a Kalaam is not a Tukbandi.. The Kalaam Should be such that there sHould be Hadd.. It should not be so that in Flow of Love of Sarkaar-e-Madeenah Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam a person says such things that leads to Kufr!!

That is Why.. Prefer the Safe Path.. The Path Shown by Sarkaar A'ala Hazrat Rahmatullah 'Alayh..

ALLAH HAAFIZ

 

i have no respect for clean shaven singers who sing irreligious poems.

it is unfortunate if 'scholars' listen to them. this is munkar and i have no qualms telling it like it is.

that is a moot point. it depends on whom you consider a 'great scholar'.

many speakers today in spite of their erroneous reasoning and unreliable references are considered as 'great' scholars. yet, these very 'great' scholars have no hesitation in reviling the REAL great scholars of our ummah. it is hypocrisy to demand respect for such unreliable scholars who revile imams of our religion, whose greatness is obvious like the mid-day sun.

we live in times when: 'there shall be an abundance of speech-makers, but a scarcity of scholars'.

this advice is good for your friends at yanaafi forum; an utterly ignorant and supremely arrogant lot who 'critique' the giants among scholars in this ummah. like a bunch of ants biting at the foot of the mountain, as if they will bring it down!

as for myself, i have always referred to REAL ulama with due deference and i ask you to show me where i have not accorded respect to REAL ulama?

wAllahu a'alam.

 

Well Abu Hasan, I am sure many would agree that you need to adopt more respect when talking about Ulamaa. It ialmost seems as if you think that you have read some books hence think every scholar in front of you is a joke - the ego needs taming. The same things you want to express can be said in a more respectable manner. When great scholars are involved who many people look up to then the general tone should be in accordance. It should be no surprise that people will take offence when buzurg ulamaa are mentioned in a negative way.

That's just some advice and not meant to offend.

As for the Chishtis listening to instruments in qawali, you do not need to "trust what I quote"; it is out there in the open and I posted a youtube video of Kachucha shareef. Allaama Kazmi Shah Sahib's opinion is known to others too and you can see Allaama Ghulam Rasool Saeedi state this fact (he is a mureed). Allaama Bandyaalvi was Chsihti and would partake in listening to qawaali gatherings himself.

Yes, there are some clear cut things that should be rejected flat out such as the hadra gatherings with some Naqshbandi Shaikhs where men and women are together and in some cases even holding hands!

 

where?

 

There is the fatwa of Shaykh `Abd al-Ghani al-Nablusi also on permissibility

 

you keep putting words in people's mouth according to your own whims. you don't seem to read; and what you might have read, you don't seem to comprehend. you imagine things and you accuse people of what your delusions dictate. after a few iterations, the whole thing is distorted into something which was never said or intended.

i wish abu nibras had not edited that line.

i did not compare those who attend qawwalis with transvestites - i was talking about these singers of qawwalis. clapping their hands and clean shaven, who don't even look like muslims. and sing filthy, irreligious, blasphemous poetry on other occasions.

beyond this, i did not compare the late pir sahib nor those who attended the majlis. Allah ta'ala knows best.

alahazrat's research is not only robust, but you will rarely find any of our salaf or the khalaf against it. masters of this discipline who are not just scholars, but outstanding intellectuals and thinkers like imam ghazali have disallowed it.

people mistake fluffy talk with knowledge; and unlike many such padded speakers/writers, alahazrat's treatises are full of material which is rigorous and can be easily cross-checked.

moreover, i don't trust what you quote, nor what other members of your gang quote.

 

In light of Abu Hasan comparing people who attend qawalis to transvestites, apart from Kachawcha Shareef, Allama Ghulaam Rasool Saeedi mentioning Ala Hazrat's (RA) view on instruments being haram in qawali says that Allaama Syed Ahmad Kazmi Shah (RA) and Allama Ataa Mohammad Bandyaalvi (RA)disagreed and said it is jaaiz.

 

Sayyad Madni Mian sahib qibla do not listen to Qawali, however their younger brother do (they were the ones in attendance of that mehfil), so did their shaykh, Huzoor Sarkar-e-kalan. However Madni Mian sahib themselves dont, however they respect both opinions!

 

sidi AH,

I am an ignoramus, I admit, when it comes to Islam but surely you cannot say that pious scholars like Sayyid Muhammad Madni MiyaN and Sayyid Muhammad Hashmi MiyaN, for example, are also unversed in Islamic law and Islamic lore? If qawwali with music was so clearly haraam surely the likes of Huzoor Madani Miyan (and I´m not a murid of them or anything) would not attend such mehfils today? I´m sure they are aware of Sayyidi Ala Hadrat´s fatawa.

 

qawwali in old usage meant - what we say these days - na'at or nasheed:
good poetry recited without music and recited by pious people in a sobre gathering. this was done as a means of relaxing for the sufi who underwent taxing worships and exacting temperance.

the meaning of qawwali has changed in today's world to include music and sung by people who don't even look like muslims. and who most of who, are professional singers who sing licentious and lewd poems on other occasions.

do not cling to the mere word and extract a licence for this.

a few decades ago, it was a good thing to be gay; and if a muslim preacher said that he was feeling gay, nobody would find it out of place. but how would you react today, if an imam of the masjid declared that 'it was a fine day, and he was feeling gay?'

a 'harlot', in old usage meant: 'a tramp' or 'a common man'.
[a related reference, of interest to linguists.]


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people retain the name of qawwali and have transformed its nature. major books of tasawwuf explain sama'a and its description.

actually, the majority of ulama and fuqaha and muhaddithin and the greatest sufis of all time subscribe to this view. the sawad-e-a'zam, is not the majority of ignoramuses; but rather a majority of scholars and pious men.

i would be honored to be counted [as a follower] in that minority. and also, i would be suspicious of anybody who dissents with that 'minority'.

moreover, this is an attestation to the truth of the Habib's warning, sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam that he said [rephrased]: 'islam will go back to appearing strange. and good news is for those who choose to be strangers'.

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in our times anybody who can speak is an expert. it is another testimony to the truth of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam that, in spite of books being published widely and easily available, knowledge is fast becoming extinct. speakers are plenty but scholars are disappearing. people without basic knowledge of fiqh or aqidah criticize and comment on islamic matters, and even trash masters of these sciences!

speakers with false analogies and patchy narrations are heralded as masters; and clueless juveniles are expert commentators.


sub'HanAllah.
Allah ta'ala knows best.

 

if anyone can get me the full lyrics to this qawwali i will endeavour to translate it!

 

pir mihr ali jis mein mawjood hai
khitta e jood hai!