Respecting an non-sunni syyed

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by chisti-raza, Jul 12, 2013.

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  1. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    Hazrat Allamah Pir Muhammad Saqib bin Iqbal al Shaami al Ridawi al Baralaywi wrote in regards to the respect of a deviant deobandi wahabi sayyid:

    Todays wahabis are generally kaafir fiqhi and not all are kaafir kalami. Their leaders upon whom the fatwa of kufr was issued are kaafir kalaami and those who are aware of the ibaaraat with ittilla yaqeeni are also kaafir kalaami provided their endorsement is after understanding the ibaraat based on Ittilaa yaqeeni. Since the ruling of tazeem e sayyid is a matter relating to fiqh not kalam hence the fiqhee ruling will be applied. We do not claim that all wahabis of today are kaafir kalaami but we believe they are kaafir fiqhi based on many reasons mentioned by ulama so according to fuqaha wahabi sayyids are kaafir and they will not be venerated. Those so-called sayyids whose Bidah has reached the level of kufr will not be respected because they are kafir kalaami and those whose bidah has not reached the hadd of kufr will not be respected because they are kaafir fiqhi and the issue of tazeem is relating to fiqh not kalaam. No possibilty of respecting Ismail dehlavi and ahmad barelvi etc
     
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    from the scanned page number#26 it can also be seen that the over-whelming consensus of the ahlussunnah states that the four rightly guided caliphs (upon their Master be peace and blessings and upon them) are superior (afdal) to all angels in their ranks, except those among the angels who are Messengers, such as Sayyiduna Jibreel, 'alayhimus-salaam.

    subHanAllah.
     
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  3. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali New Member

     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali New Member

     

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  5. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Many thanks for that br. Noori. It certainly puts things in perspective.
     
  6. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    Here is what alahazrat ahmed raza khan says:

    fatawa razwiyya volume 11 page 23/26

    meaning: a syed even if he is a bad-mazhab should be respected because lineage only disconnects with kufr.

    "phir bhi syed ka fazl e zati hai ke fisq balkey bad-mazhabi se bhi nahin jata, jab tak ma'azallah hadd e kufr ko na pohanche aur syed sahihun nasab bihamdillah ta'ala iss se mahfuz rahe ga(from kufr)."
     
  7. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    in the following i have tried to translate a passage from Hadith e Iftiraq e Ummat . i know i am not a good translator, but at least it will give you some idea, or you can read page 73 and 74 of this book. the actual reference is from al-mutaqad al-muntaqad page 233.

    my point is that these three categories explained below also apply to a non sunni sayed, in deed only 2nd and 3rd, as the first one is out of the question.

    Hazrat Molana FaDal Rasul Bdayyuni has categorised the transgressors into three catogeries
    i) whose transgression has reached to the degree of kufr
    ii) whose bid'ah is not kufr but he invites others to his bid'ah
    ii) one who himself is a bid'ati but he doesn't have the ability/skills to invite others to his bida'ah

    then he explains that first one takes the ruling of a kafir, and then talks about the the rest of the two;

    ''as for the transgressor who invites others and assumes that to what he is inviting others is the truth then he is inducing people and causing them go astray and his evil is contagious, therefore it is necessary to show detestation and opposition against him, break all ties with him, abhor him, vilify him, and make people to hate his bid'ah, if he says salam then there is no harm replying him when in privacy, but if one thinks that not replying his salam will help to rebuke and reprimend him then it is wajib not to answer him, if he said salam in public then in order to make people hate him and to vilify his bid'ah it is wajib not to answer him, and it is better not to cooperate with him at all"

    and for the 3rd category, he says

    "this is the transgressor who doesn't have the ability to invite others and it is not feared from him that he can make other people transgress, then the ruling about him is milder than the former one (i.e the second). it is desirable that he should not be dealt with harshness or revilement, rather he should be counseled with kindness and solicitude, because the hearts of common people change very quickly. however, if counseling does not seem to benefit him, and it is evident that bid'ah has taken roots in his heart then it is wajib to distance from him."


    (al-mutaqad al-muntaqad 233, quoting from hidth e iftiraq e ummat page 73)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
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  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    that's not true.

    this is a subjective issue.

    a Sayyid is honored only if his bid3ah is minor or light.

    we can honor a Sayyid if he just believes Maula Ali has fadeelah over Shaykhayn and that's all he says, but we don't honor the 12'ers who claim to be Sayyid, for instance

    or we can honor a Sayyid who has aberrant positions on fiqh like wiping on cotton socks or who are ghayr muqallid only as far as fiqh is concerned, but honoring the kind of wahabis with jahil 3aqidah like abul a3la maududi or the shaytan hassoun is something else

    or zanadiq like ahmed khan of aligarh.

    or someone directly preaching against the commands of the Prophet 3alaihis salam and preaching severe fitnah by directly going against and preaching against the wala and bara of Islam, only because he is a beggar at the doorsteps of the vatican and paid some spare change by the christian church that he so admires, like ali jify and umar bin hafiz of hadramout and 'Hashemite prince' ghazi bin talal of jordan along with criminals like abdullah bin bayyah, may Allah disgrace all these common word slaves of the christian church. these so called "Sunnis" and "Sayyids" are a bigger evil than ibn baz, ismail dehlvi, and khomeini. these people are all enemies of Tawhid, who are not only cowards who do not have the courage to call towards Tawhid and negate kufr, but also their chicanery and political correctness even attempts to fuzzy the difference between Tawhid and kufr, and between believer and disbeliever.
     
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  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    JazakAllah for the answer. So the clincher here is 'not causing severe fitnah'.

    and even if causing fitnah, for example spreading wahhabi bidah, abusing past sunni shcolars and awliya or spreading modernist ideas that are severe misguidance - then is he to be corrected mildly, say without naming him and using words like 'there is a sayyid sahib who says xyz' - or harshly - to warn the people to stay away from him?

    then again surely respect doesn't equate to harboring love, right? so if such sayyid arrives at a gathering does a sunni-proper have to stand to greet him or offer him a seat? this seems counter-intuitive does it not? because such a public display of deference will make the masses feel that the sayyid is really not that wrong - maybe just a lil bit, so whats the big deal?

    also, is a sayyid allowed to speak harshly to another sayyid, cause both have the same basic status, like how sayyid irfan shah snubs peer abdul qadir jilani?

    lastly, i humbly request you to watch the video when you get access and share your views regarding it. cause from what i gleaned from it is:

    ' you are supposed to honor a non-sunni sayyid, say a wahhabi because of his lineage, but you are not supposed to show respect to a fasiq sunni, because of his fisq ' - so basically, lineage seems to be getting the upper hand over aqida - even that aqida which is decisive in rendering a person ahlsunnah or ahlulbidah!

    i really need to get these things straight.

    JazakAllah. Wassalaam.
     
  10. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    i guess this applies only to those sayeds whose bida'h has not reached to the level of kufr or if he is not causing fitnah but holds aberrant ideas. For example we cannot respect ismay'l dehlavi's shaykh sayyid ahmed barelvi because of his statements, though he was a sayed too. How one can remain a sayed if he has already quit the religion, or is causing sever fitnah. Moreover, it is only respecting the lineage he belongs to, not his bida'h which still has to be refuted regardless of his lineage.

    By the way i didn't watch the video, indeed i can't because youtbue is blocked and i don't bother myslef finding cheats.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  11. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    JazakAllah for pointing that out. May Allah guide him else destroy him and his aides. Ameen.

    and yes, no one has been named so its easy to play around with. I need to be more careful. As of now i feel quite relieved.

    two points still bothering me:
    1) whoever is being referred to, must be or claim to be a sunni, since according to Sayyid Sahib he was accused of insulting alahadhrat, which a non-sunni will obviously not care about.

    2) what about the second question? If some xyz claims to be a sayyid but is not sunni, do we still respect him? then where will this lead to? cause we are also not supposed to doubt a person if he claims to be a sayyid?

    jazakAllah. Wassalaam.
     
  12. AashiqueeRasool

    AashiqueeRasool New Member

    You are right this is the work of a shaitan. No mention is made of Hazur Muhaddith e Kabir damat barakatuhu alia within the clip. May Allah protect us from such mischief makers.
     
  13. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Active Member

    The video seems to have been uploaded by a minhaji shaitan. The behgehrat has a picture of Sheikh ul Islaam Azhari Mia as his profile pic.
    May Allah destroy this shaitan.
     
  14. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I don't want to create fitna here. Mods may delete this post if they wish.
    But i am still in the learning stage and would like to know:

    1) what could be the motivations behind such talks? A HUGE gathering of scholars and laymen - all followers of alahdhrat - and they are being fed what exactly? the wah-wah-subHanAllah is in praise of what?

    just look at the sizes of caps of those sitting on the podium. they are supposed to be the shepherds for the ummah in these trying times. is it a wonder then that we're suffering?

    2) is the statement about respecting a non-sunni sayyid correct?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-TqJH1_rM

    Wassalaam.
     

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