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Discussion in 'Bickering' started by ShahJi, Mar 2, 2017.
I always seem to start face palming when it comes to things like this - bad image on our half. How hard is it for them to understand the repercussion this has on us all.
On the bright side, he has been blessed with a great voice for naats, kalaams etc.
I feel he is in competition with himself on how far against the etiquettes of naathwani he can go
Please provide reference of waving hands side by side as originated by western pop culture. (as now you are basically addressing the 10's of thousands of Indonesian and malaysian who I see waving flags and their hands side by side during mawlids).
next provide reference againts waving hands side by side as being either allowed,sinful, or disliked either tanzihan or tahrimi whilts listening to Naat or Nasheed
clarifying each and every point as in what is sunnah, makhroof tahrimi , tanzihi in this video with reference.
Yes, there is a way that is the best way , the sunnah, but sometimes emotions cause people not to think straight , but since love is the kernel of this endeavor , they are often forsaken.
Know I am not disagreeing with your position or sentiment, personally I adhere to the sobriety. But one must be careful what they say without knowing the full picturen & thereafter blaming everyone in the gathering.
Those who use evidences and Fatawa for dancing must also understand that we accept there are evidences allowing it. But people should know that the Shafi'i allow it but even amongst their Ulema there is difference of opinion. There is no Ijma on this. Some say allowed others say Makruh.
Anyway, the gathering like this en mass, flags, dancing, raising hands is an Indo Paak custom and is new (all elements together with gathering in huge numbers in parks for example). The fatwa changes with time and place for customs- I say the fatwa of permissibility must be changed here due to the wider social ramifications and if people want to apply the Shafi'i Fatwa then do it in smaller gatherings. These Fatawa from Imams Ibn Hajar Haithami, Nawawi and Imam Suyuti may Allah have Mercy on Them are not for the types of gatherings that we see today with all there different elements. The Suffis would gather for Saama behind closed doors is my understanding and not where 20,000 would come and start doing Hadra in a public place.
Where two things remain permissible such as dancing and not dancing then one must weigh up what brings the greater of the good and apply that. How can we say that dancing in the way that happens is bringing more good? Of course not! How many people know Imam Ibn Hajar's Fatwa on dancing? How many know Imam Suyuti's Fatwa? Most youngsters don't even know Sultan al Ulema Al Izz Abdus Salaam ever existed which is from where many took their Fatawa in my opinion and Allah Knows best.
Where is the wisdom??? Change the ruling I say and do it fast. Stopping something before it leads to harm. What's next for these people. The enemy gets you by degrees and uses your strengths against you but many fail to see his traps.
As for their punishment....no, for Hadra let them enjoy it but do it away from public eyes.
All these things they will say are an expression of love, but where love and Akhlaq are concerned while both have there propoer place Akhlaq takes precedence because the heaviest things on the scales is good character (not love) and while people with somewhat lesser love are still with those they love but the same is not true for the one with obnoxious Akhlaq but has love.
To stop this getting worse and stop this becoming the norm (remember what age we live in, where we don't need an excuse) I stand by what I said and those acting without manners on stages, throwing cash around, shouting should be beaten (on video too)
precisely. these things will become the "standard" and will keep going down until sunnis raises their voices. if you noticed, the video was used by a najdi, to spread hatred against sunnis - he even entitled it "nnnnnnnnn clowns, partying hard", with over 142k views.
brother abu nibras, i did not even hint that they are not sunnis.
yes, the same person; sunni ulema in UK have confirmed he purposely trims his beard short; and his hair-locks reach too far beyond his shoulders. PS: i don't know him personally.
let us not go so far. expressing distaste is enough.
I think that swaying is something that sometimes comes naturally when in an emotional state, but I have personally never understood where waving hands comes from.
I too have attended mahafil like the ones described by sidi abu nibras and find it a kind of invasion into personal space when a naath-khwaan makes it out as if the one who doesn't flourish his hands is somehow deficient in his love or sincerity. And how the naath-khwaan himself maintains a state of sincerity while looking out for hands and flags is beyond me.
I have also been fortunate enough to listen to reciters who shut their eyes, lower their heads and recite in such a state of emotion and sincerity that it's impossible not to feel the words reach out and wring your heart.
However, I will not go so far as to judge the reciters or the listeners who like hand/flag-waving. Allah ta'ala knows best the states of their hearts.
As someone said, "na kisi ke raqs pe tanz kar, na kisi ke gam ka mazaak uda; jise chaahein jaise nawaaz dein, ye mizaaj e 'ishq e rasul hai" (sallallahu'alayhi wa sallam).
and then there are those who perform the hadra to the recitation of naath and hamd - what punishment would you prescribe for them?
Firstly, waving your hands side to side is a practice originated from western style pop concerts. When the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon Him) is mentioned we do how the Sahaba Ikraam did (May Allah be Pleased with Them ALL) and keep our head down and are silent like birds are perched on our heads (as reported by both Imam Ahmad and Imam Nisai). These people are drunk with fame, let them answer truthfully if this is how they would recite a Naat in front of the Jalia Mubarak and in front of the Chosen One Himself, the Messenger of Allah (Peace and Blessings be upon Him)? Indeed there is a report that one of the Sahaba if asked what the Holy Prophet looked like would not be able to describe Him as he never looked up at the Messenger of Allah out of awe. So how then do these people dance, jump around, raise their voices and wave their hands left and right.
I say they be beaten and that is not transgressing but a good thing, one full of reward.
While this is nowhere near an ideal mehfil, I have seen worst videos. even top names in Naat khwani work up crowds, haath uthao hath hilao , jhoom ke, jin ko ishq hai hath uthao, etc... So on one hand we have this going on and on the other side we have the beard measuring team giving sunni certificates.
btw Which peersab was clean shaven, the one sitting did have a beard.
there is nothing wrong in the Kalaam (lam yaati nazeeruka).
In the video itself, I am sure you must have noticed the "peer" was clean shaven, some were waving hands and dancing to the rhythm; and there was drum-beat in the background.
these types of actions are providing ammo to devs / salafis to malign the ahle-Sunnah. and brainwash simple & neutral Sunnis to become devs / salafis.
What exactly was disliked in this video?
The naat khwan was merely repeating rimjim meaning rain, its used quite often in poetry. I personally don't get put off from sunniyat with tis video, because from this statement I assume your taking a position sunniyat is black and white , this may or may not be wrong (the actions in the video) but how does it effect Sunniyat, meaning the aqaid of ahlus sunnah. Yes it maybe affecting the audience if this is all they are going for in terms of learning.
Please advice me in anything I may have said wrong.
that would be a very sad conclusion when in fact the takeaway is: eat less no matter how much you move - which basically avoids the twin evils of the food industry (especially the 'low-fat-high-carb' over-priced and harmful fad products) and the gym industry.
One more way to put off people from Sunniyat. astaghferu-Allah
The clip reminds me of a couplet.................
huey tum dost jiskey, us ka dushman aasmaaN kyun ho?
if you were to be the friend of someone, why would the sky* be his enemy?
* alluding to destiny. meaning, your 'friendship' is enough to make one unfortunate.
who need enemies when one has friends like you??
Qari saab are saying we should go gym