Ruling on Mortgages in UK?

Discussion in 'Other Mad'habs' started by IslamIsTheTruth, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. sunniislam

    sunniislam New Member

    Assalamu 'alaykum.

    I hope i can get Shaykh Abu Hasan view and opinion.

    I just want to know, why is there a difference in the scholars of Deoband and most sunni scholars about buying mortgage house in UK/Western countries.
    Many sunni scholars deem it permissble today, and many hanafi scholars of deoband deem it haram, why this difference when they both follow hanafi madhab.

    Secondly, how many sunni scholars still deem it impermissble today.

    Thirdly, is the ruling same for a normal muslim and scholar/muslim who is working for din in dar al-harb to make hijrah if its becoming difficult to act on sharia, meaning faraidh/wajib.
     
  2. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Active Member

    The mortgage isn't riba though.
    Riba can never be jaiz.
    The reason it's haram is because of the fact the kuffaar get naf'a even though the Muslim benefits in the long run.
     
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    The mufti clearly says that only one house is allowed on mortgage. If the mortgage is for investment purpose, then it is not allowed. What he also says is that it is valid to sub-let the mortgaged house in part or full to earn rent (in order to pay the mortgage).

    If you buy a house on mortgage with intention to live there, but have to rent it out later for one reason or the other, then that mortgage will be considered permissible. Initial intention is what counts
     
  4. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

  5. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Let me watch the full clip and revert to you.
     
  6. 786-12

    786-12 New Member

    i don't know if you watched the clip but at 2mins 32sec the mufti says something about renting the house and mentions asl e maqsood remains...this was what i was unsure about as it was in urdu i didn't fully understand what he mentioned about renting the house to pay off mortgage payments
     
  7. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    If "Mufti of Dawat-e-Islami says that in non-Muslim lands it is allowed to have a mortgage for one house to live in", then obviously buy-to-let mortgage will NOT be considered permissible.
     
  8. 786-12

    786-12 New Member

    don't fully understand the urdu so wanted to ask if it is ok to have a buy to let mortgage based on what is mentioned in the clip by Mufti of Dawat-e-Islami
     
  9. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

  10. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    I am not too sure what the stance of Imam Abu Hanifa RA and Imam Muhammad RA is on this matter, perhaps if someone could find out what is written in the books of Fiqh.
     
  11. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Read post no. 15. Even I'm trying to understand it properly.
     
  12. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Active Member

    Please refrain from allegations towards the noble imams without any solid references. As mentioned before getting interest (again this is not riba) from them is permitted in darul harb however selling pork or alcohol has never been permitted by any of the noble imams.

    Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380 "Allah's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

    From what I see here is that someone is using their own limited qiyas without any qualifications whatsoever in trying to validate selling alcohol and pork in their grocery store by trying to equate it to the hadith of no interest between a Muslim and a Harbi Kaafir in Darul Harb!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    Bazdawi likes this.
  13. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Islamic scholars who consider a non-Muslim country as Dar al-Harb (house of war) state various views on the relationships between the Muslims and non-Muslims living in a non-Muslim country.

    Imam Azam Abu Hanifa and Imam Muhammad states that it is ok for a Muslim living in a non-Muslim country to get interest from non-Muslims, to sell drink and pork to non-Muslims and even to gamble with them if it is certain to win; since these acts are legal for the non-Muslims, and Muslims’ benefiting from these acts can be considered as some kind of ganimah (treasure won in war).
     
  14. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Where does it say that the ruling concerning alcohol is only for dar ul islam br. umar?

    (not followed the whole thread, please link to post number)
     
  15. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Not sure what you're trying to say there. Hindustan is not darul harb, but at the same time taking excess money from non muslims there is allowed because they are considered harbi.
     
  16. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Is it true that it is obligatory for a Muslim to leave a land that is Dar-al-Harb as soon as possible?
    If yes, then we should accept that ruling also when considering UK as Dar-al-Harb.
     
  17. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    But thats talking about Dar al Islam whilst we are discussing in Dar al Harb.
     
  18. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Active Member

    See this link, page 223 http://www.fikreraza.org/books/books/bahaare-shariat-vol16[1].pdf (Bahaare Shariat Vol 16 English translation). The sale where a Muslim sells alcohol is impermissible in general and the money earned is also impermissible. The question was for whether a payment of debt to a Muslim by a Kafir who made his money from selling alcohol is permissible or not.

    Imam Nawawi (RA) explicitly mentions in his commentary about the hadith against alcohol that it is haraam whether sold to a Muslim or a kafir (Al Majmu).

    I don't know what comes next now, will working as a bartender in a pub be permissible as long as you are serving to a kafir?
     
  19. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Yes, this is why I found it weird but it seems in Hanafi madhab the scholars have allowed taking part in corrupt contracts with Kuffar in dar al harb which includes selling alcohol, pork etc.:

    http://eng.dar-alifta.org/foreign/ViewFatwa.aspx?ID=10761&text=corrupt contracts

    Does anyone know what senior ulama like Tajusharia have to say on this matter?
     
  20. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Active Member

    I am not questioning mortgages in which case there are two opinions for Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. I explicitly stated alcohol which is totally forbidden.

    Abu Dawood - 3674
    Ibn ‘Umar said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried

    Tirmidhi - 1295

    The Messenger of Allaah (SAWS) cursed ten with regard to alcohol: the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who drinks it, the one who carries it, the one to whom it is carried, the one who pours it, the one who sells it and consumes its price, the one who buys it and the one for whom it is bought.”
     

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