Ruling on watching Boxing & UFC

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Khanah, Feb 18, 2022.

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  1. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    I don't see the problem in offering snooker etc- better to keep the kids off the streets and snooker isn't haram per se.

    As for boxing/MMA- there are numerous elements that have to be considered:-

    - Boxing/MMA events also have women fighting with awra uncovered- are people switching off during their fights?
    - Men's awrah is uncovered often, maybe not so much in boxing due to the long shorts they utilise
    - Entrance music for fighters- do people mute their TV?
    - Ring girls holding cards, etc
    - The fact that striking to the face is haram and these people are doing intentional damage to each other. The fact that they contractually agreed to damage each other's bodies is irrelevant since consent to do haram to each other does not make something halal. In the same way that consensually committing zina together is still zina. Unfortunately, I have heard from madrasah graduates that if people consent, what's the problem?
    - The promotions themselves are partly making money through haram income such as alcohol sponsorships, etc. Why should we support them?
    - Fights are promoted mainly via the fighters insulting each other. Now, that doesn't have any bearing on whether the actual act of boxing is haram or not- however, why reward bad behaviour?
    - People grow up idolising these fighters- why would you want your children to do that? People also grow up idolising pablo escobar or tupac. I don't even agree with how they fall in love with khabib or prince naseem based on being what, elite level talents at something which is haram?
     
  2. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I think it's more about competition rather than entertainment. Competing in wrestling as well as viewing wrestling competitions would be allowed (wrestlers having correct sitr is another matter).

    If we eliminate striking on the head or any other things that may cause severe bodily injury then is there a possibility for such things to be halal? If you take wrestling it too can cause severe bodily harm, but in competition the person typically taps out before that or the referee stops it.

    Based on wrestling being allowed, then can practice of any martial arts be allowed so long as it is within the rules of reducing risk of severe injury? Are there differences in opinion amongst scholars on such matters?

    Just my thoughts as I don't have the answers myself!
     
    Shadman likes this.
  3. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    I think the issue isn't simply the striking element alone. For instance, practicing MMA for self defense is different from practicing MMA as an entertainer.

    Also, are there issues with offering snooker/pool/TT ?
     
  4. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Slightly different note, but what about wrestling? It is allowed in Islam. We do have elite wrestlers in MMA such as Khabib. So if we exclude the striking element and only have say Dagestani wrestling or jiu-jitsu then will that be allowed?
     
  5. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    You probably live in a coccoon!

    In my local masjid (culture centre annex), they offer classes for MMA & thai kick boxing (besides yoga)! Several other nearby masajids (all sunni, BTW) offer activities like snooker/pool, TT etc. I had ranted on this topic on another thread.
     
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    So boxing is haram. But our kids will watch it anyway. You won't stop them.

    So the question is: should our Islamic centres/community centres show the boxing?

    The organisers will argue these kids will watch it anyway so at least they're with us...

    If Shaykh Asrar is reading this I hope he can provide his view too.
     
  7. Rumi786

    Rumi786 ghulam-i-Shams-Tabrizam

    then what is more manly and courageous (in sports)? You obviously don't have the 'badness' to admire boxing and the artistry of pugilism. It's a sport for real men as exemplified by The Baddest Man on the Planet, Iron Mike Tyson (a Muslim) and The Greatest of All Times, Muhammad 'Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!' Ali!

    Alhamdulillah both are Sunni Muslims.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  8. Rumi786

    Rumi786 ghulam-i-Shams-Tabrizam

    aH,
    its sad a person of your intellect resorts to ad-hominem attacks. i don't subscribe to the view that all religious people are 'backward' nor am i 'arrogant' - well i hope i am not insha allah --i would not be participating on a religious forum if i myself were not religious but the fact is there are both arguments for and against boxing and have been for a long time. i don't particularly care what newscientist.com says on this issue. sure, boxing is potentially dangerous but those who choose to be professional boxers know of the risks when they choose to box. to say it is not manly or courageous is just arguing for arguments sake. even if boxing were banned tommorow, I'd still disagree with the ban...

    Anyone who has seen the ballet-like artistry of Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard cannot but admire the skills required in this most elementary of sports. It is the apex of sport - and yet is only sport and not War. As a percentage probably its more dangerous to drive a car!

    If you don't like it, don't watch it!
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yes, it is very manly to bash another person and get bashed in turn. very very manly.
    we know that your superior mind and educated "i-am-a-scientst" arrogance, do not take advice from backward people who follow religion; but some thoughts from the science* community:

    ---
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929290.200-ban-boxing--its-demeaning-and-dangerous.html





    *i hadn't seen this when i said earlier that boxing should be banned. it is plain common-sense.
     
    naqshbandirazavi and Unbeknown like this.
  10. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Wrestling is not forbidden which is why you probably haven't heard anyone declaring it forbidden...
    To look at the awrah of another is forbidden.
    The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam did not wrestle with his awrah uncovered.

    Even if the awrah is covered with clothing, boxing is a violent sport as it involves striking the face and body.
     
  11. Rumi786

    Rumi786 ghulam-i-Shams-Tabrizam

    What about Graeco-Roman style wrestling which was also popular in Arabia during the time of the Prophet (saw) then? Or Kabbadi? Never heard of any alim ruling either haram -- and in those the shorts worn are much shorter than in football or boxing?
    --
    What if boxers wear the long style shorts? (Like Joe Frazier often did?)

    Talking of which, who do you think will win Mayweather or Pacquiao?
    Boxing is a manly sport...loads of people became Muslims because of Tyson and, especially, the greatest of all times, Muhammad Ali.

    --
    Never heard a Sunni say it was haram before! (Except Faraz Rabbani but he is not a Sunni!)
    --
    Which football team do you guys sport? Like Imam Asim, its got to be Barca! Lionel Messi rocks!
     
  12. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    Conclusion is - What is Haram is Haram no matter how popular or unpopular it is!

    I find it disgusting that such a question regarding the permissibility of viewing another persons Satr-e-Awrat is being asked.

    What next? People asking regarding the permissibilty of viewing explicit videos?!
     
  13. Sacred

    Sacred Active Member

    So what is the conclusion?
     
  14. Sag-e-Attar786

    Sag-e-Attar786 New Member

    of course it is still wasting time watching cricket but i was just talking about it being different in that to watch it is allowed
     
  15. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    Where is the ikhtilaf regarding whether video is permissible for futile and abath things?

    'give them a finger and they'll bite off your hand'
     
  16. Abu al-Qasim

    Abu al-Qasim Active Member

  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    apart from the satr part, boxing is a violent sport.
    why don't they ban boxing in western countries instead of banning niqab? but then, anything western 'civilisation' thinks is 'civilised' is good.

    obviously, there is no benefit - what joy is there in watching men batter each other?

    ulama forbade cockfighting (and bull-fighting etc. by extension) because it is cruelty to animals. and here men batter each other for the joy of spectators. why don't they just bring back the glorious days of western civilisation - when gladiators were superstars.

    astaghfirullahi'l azeem.
     
  18. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    what is haram to look at is also haram to look at on TV.
     
  19. agent-x

    agent-x Well-Known Member

    Exactly my point. Things such as the above also need to be considered opinion of video/tv.

    Different only in the sense theyre covered

    Watching cricket is wasting time isnt it? (another thing that needs to be considered)
     
  20. Sag-e-Attar786

    Sag-e-Attar786 New Member

    It is obviously haraam to look at men with their sitr uncovered, nothing to be considered there
    I think the practicing and knowledgeable brothers who watch it know with certainty that it's haraam but still do it
    I don't think anyone is stupid enough to consider it allowed
    And agent x makes a valid point about football as the same applies to football- sitr not covered
    Cricket however is different as the sitr is covered- during matches at least
    However uncovered cheerleaders cant be watched and neither can any music be listened to
     

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