Sarfaraz Qadri post regarding Shaykh Asrar

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Umar99, Apr 15, 2018.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    @faizanattari786 I don't know whats wrong with you but you do not seem to understand the very things you post. You posted a fatwa in Urdu and another one in English - neither of which state that each and every person who ascribes himself to the devbandi sect is a murtadd. If you are a sincere person then please re-read what you posted and what sidi abu Hasan has written.

    When did you conduct that poll? And since when have people's actions become the touchstone for halal and haram? Didn't your favorite pir do a lecture against modernist Azharis - or is he your favorite only when he tells you about dispensations?
  2. faizanattari786

    faizanattari786 New Member

    mawlana abu hasan
    i am talking about different issue. i am seeing that some ridawis have been diluted.

    what differentiates us from deobandis of our times who supposedly don't know the kufr of elders - the chap who said they call themselves deobandis, that's why we call them that is just not enough. i met several irani shias they are also clueless about their elders and beliefs, does that mean i can stop calling them heretic and start throwing mix parties??

    my point of contention is that the present day deobandits are deobandis because of their endorsement of kufri elders or kufric beliefs, if you happen to meet a random deo at masjid or tableeghi and ask him about thanvi or ambetvi, and inform him about fatwa of alahazrat, does he accept you?

    same with salafis and wahhabis.

    don't fall for this hidden sulah kulli propaganda and stick with maslak e alahazrat which was endorsed by arab scholars of hejaz yah they did not know urdu then why did they endorse and it was endorsed by many sunni scholars of hind,
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  3. faizanattari786

    faizanattari786 New Member

    Does Asrar Rashid pray behind deobandis of our time since they don't know the kufr of elders? what about wahhabis and salafis? can same logic be applied, if you are making excuses for heretics why do you have problem with hamza yusuf and his stance on qadiyanis of our times. I remember HY made same excuses like qadiyanis of today are not aware of the kufr of gulam toilet.

    lastly, amazing to see ignorant ridawis shoving the fatawa of AlaHazrat under the rug, do you want more scans ???????

    If deobandis of today don't know the kufr of elders, then it should be ok to pray behind using the same logic. Why NOT ?

    Is it permissible to pray behind Deobandis?


    Wa Alaykum Al-Salam,

    From amongst the conditions of an Imam for Salah is that he must not be an open sinner or misguided. The Salah behind such an Imam is Makrooh. This is mentioned in most if not all the books of Hanafi Fiqh. The fatwa is that it is severely Makrooh to perform Salah behind an open sinner or a misguided Imam. It is necessary (wajib) to repeat such salah.

    As for the Deobandies, many of their general public are misguided due to rejecting one or more beliefs from the necessities of the Ahl Al-Sunnah. These are beliefs upon which every scholar from amongst the pious predecessors unanimously agreed upon. As for the actual Deobandies, they hold beliefs of infidelity. Such as comparing the knowledge of the Prophet (peace be upon him) with animals, children and mad men, see Hifz Al-Iman by Ashraf Ali Thanwi. Also, that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the seal of the Prophets but it doesn't mean that another prophet can not come in his or after his time, see Tahzeer Al-Naas by Qasim Nanotwi. And also, that the knowledge of satan is more than the knowledge of the Prophet (peace be upon him), see Baraaheen-e-Qaati'ah by Khaleel Ahmad Ambethwi and verified by Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi.

    There are many other beliefs of infidelity mentioned by the deobandi scholars such as Allah can lie in their books which are published even today by their own establishments. May Allah protect every Musslim from such beliefs and opinions. Any deobandi who knows of this and accepts it as correct is also out of the folds of Isslam. Salah behind such a deobandi is haram and the same as performing salah behind a Hindu. See Al-Ataya Al-Nabawiyyah Fi Al-Fatawa Al-Ridwiyyah, Fatawa Mustafawiyyah, Fatawa Amjadiyyah and all the Fatawa of the Scholars who lived where the deobandi sect emerged from.

    And Allah knows best.

    Zahid Hussain Al-Qadri

    (Beggar at the doorstep of Scholars)
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  4. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Well-Known Member

    I also am inclined to believe this is propaganda by the sidi's.

    DI brothers don't behave in this manner and in all honesty they are amongst the biggest supporters of Shaykh Asrar Rashid and hold him in high regards. And why wouldn't they, he is a genuine person who is working with sincerity for the betterment of Ahle Sunnah and that's all that matters.

    I think it's pathetic to try and drag DI into this, perhaps the Sidi's are feeling insecure and wanted to shift the spotlight away from their own drama's.

    If Sarfaraz was so genuine he would have gone and spoken to Shaykh Asrar in person, he could have even approached the Habaib since he stated they were in the UK. I mean if you're so concerned for the Imaan of the awaam then those shouldn't seem like difficult steps to take. But if you're a insecure insincere drama queen then I guess you'd do pretty much what this guy did and rant on Facebook.
  5. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Exactly this. People forget to use common sense.
    I bet these same keyboard warriors would make takfir of Imam Shah Ahmad Noorani Siddiqui and other great leaders if they were alive today.

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    This intra sunni refutation and counter refutation is becoming tedious....

    ....Shaykh Asrar is doing a fantastic job of defending Ahlus Sunnah from the slurs and accusations of deviants and we all need to be behind him and offer him our full support. He is in prime position to access the non sub con ulema and explain exactly who the "barelwis" are and how we differ from the deobandis..this muck raking is becoming similar to the salafi way of doing week a person is a trustworthy shaikh..the next he's "off manhaj"...
    Ibn Hadi and Ghulam Ali like this.
  7. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Yeah all the Dawateislami people I have met have very good adab. They always think well of others and are cautious when making takfir.
    They also love Shaykh Asrar.
  8. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    these guys are not attari, the dawat e islami bhais usually have good akhlaq and would approach Sh Asrar.

    My gut feeling is these are sidi trolls who are upset that the cult is finally falling apart. alHamdulilah.

    It was not Sh Asrar who said:

    My message to the brother and sisters in our tariqa who work or volunteer for SKT:
    You either leave SKT or leave our Tariqa. There is no middle way. Supporting SKT means working against the tariqa. I do not accept silence from our brothers and sisters or a middle stance where you think that the shaykh is wrong or misinformed.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    poor reasoning and ignorant comments by posters below.

    to brother faizan attar - assuming you are mawlana ilyas qadri's murid - is it not a long standing argument against dawat-e-islami by sunni critics of dawate-islami, that they don't refute deobandis openly? why don't DI muftis correct arab scholars whom they meet and have photo-ops?

    there are many other senior ulama, who meet these ulama and do not do takfir of arab ulama on the deobandi issue. if you think i am wrong, just get me a fatwa from senior ulama.

    cannot. people can be deobandis without knowing the truth about them or attesting thereof. one cannot call them "pure sunnis" because they subscribe to their views on dozens of issues against sunnis.

    please. try to understand the issues.

    - qadiyani's issue is open kufr - he claimed nubuwwat and insulted hazrat yisa alayhi's salam. the doubt of 'lost in translation' does not arise. "he claimed to be a nabi" is a straightforward charge and can be easily translated and conveyed.

    - deobandi issue is also kufr to those who can understand native urdu. in these cases, the kufr is proven only if those statements are proven to be insults. while it was apparent to urdu-speaking ulama, deobandis have successfully crafted the narrative among arab scholars that alahazrat wrongly interpreted deo-statements and thus ruled them kafir. read keller's article IKT and i assume that is the general pattern. deos have lied openly to sell this narrative; see muhannad for a glaring example. abulhasan nadwi's slanderous notices in his nuzhatul khawatir is another major deo propaganda tool.

    deos met and interacted with arab-sunni scholars far more than our ulama did (in the past 50-60 years), they concealed their wahabi-inclinations and presented themselves as sufi-hanafis and consistently spread the propaganda that "barelwis" were out of sunnah. read the preface of "insaf al-imam" by shaykh khalid thabit, for a first person account.

    if shaykh asrar does not meet contemporary sunni arab scholars - who will counter the propaganda against us? which sunni scholars are fulfilling this duty? who among senior ulama interact with sunni-arab scholars and attempt to dispel false notions about sunnis from the subcontinent and clarify the truth about deobandi hypocrisy?
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  10. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Thank you brother Aqdas. Please explain this to those who blindly accuse Shaykh Asrar of being misguided.
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    It is important to clarify our stance regarding deobandis. We DO NOT say that every person who calls himself a deobandi is a kafir. We, Ahlu's Sunnah are very cautious in the matter of takfir. Look:

    A prominent scholar of the Ahlus Sunnah, Maulana Sayyid Ahmad Sa’eed Kazmi Amrohawi (Anwar-ul-Uloom, Multan) writes:

    “On the issue of Takfeer [ruling someone as an apostate], our stance has always been that, whosoever utters words of Kufr we shall not refrain from pronouncing Takfeer against them; whether they be Deobandi or Barelwi, follower of the League or the Congress, Nechari [naturalists] or Nadwi. On this issue we shall not differentiate whether someone is a friend or a foe.

    This certainly does not mean that if one follower of the League utters a word of Kufr, all the followers of the League are Kafir; or if one Nadwi committed Kufr that all Nadwis are apostates. We do not declare all the residents of Deoband as Kafirs due to passages of Kufr written by some Deobandis.

    We and our elders have repeatedly said that we do not decree any resident of Deoband or Lucknow as a kafir just because they live there. According to us, only that person is a kafir who commits insults against Allah, His Prophets and the chosen people of Allah and despite repeated warnings, does not repent. We also consider those people to be kafir who are aware of such Kufr and are aware of the clear meanings of these insults, and despite this they consider the insults to be the truth, the insulter to be a believer and their leader.

    And that is it.

    Apart from this, we do not declare anyone who claims to be a Muslim as an apostate. The number of people we have ruled as apostates are very few in number and restricted [to a specific issue]. Apart from these specific individuals, no Muslim from Deoband or Bareilly is termed an apostate. Neither are [Muslim] followers of the League or the Congress. We consider all Muslims to be exactly that – Muslims.”[7]

    Mufti Muhammad Sharif al-Haq Amjadi, an exegete of Al-Bukhari, and head of the fatwa division [Dar al-Ifta’], al-Jamiat al-Ashrafiya, Mubarakpur (India) writes:

    “Mere currency among common folk [úrf] is not sufficient to issue a ruling. Rather, rulings must take the real meanings of words into consideration. Therefore, a person who calls himself a Deobandi, is known by others as a Deobandi, believes these four Ulema-e-Deoband to be his leaders, even labels the Ahlus Sunnah as Bid’atis, but is not aware of the infamous statements of Kufr of these four scholars, then in reality he is not a Deobandi [who is ruled kafir]. Such a person is not ruled as a disbeliever or that performing his funeral prayer is disbelief. And Allah knows best.”[8]
    Aqib alQadri, Ghulam Ali and Ibn Hadi like this.
  12. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Mirza kanjar wrote some stuff in Arabic too. And he never claimed to be "Sunni Hanafi Maturidi". His case is clear cut.

    The likes of Kandhelvi, Nadwi, and other subcontinent deviants all wrote some works in Arabic which is why they are known in the Arab world.
    The Arab scholars believed the claim of the Deobandis to be Sunni Hanafi. They didn't know the details.
    They've been fed the Deo propaganda that the difference between them and Barelvis is merely semantic and on non-important issues.
  13. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    He calls them Deobandis because they like to REFER TO THEMSELVES AS DEOBANDIS.
    We treat them as Muslims unless we have proof of kufr.
    What part of this don't you understand?

    Of course anyone who is aware of the kufr but tries to defend those statements made by likes of Thanvi, Gangohi etc, is a kafir.

    If you are so angry at Shaykh Asrar, go and meet him.
  14. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    But aren't they clear on the issue of mirza gulam qadiani? he wrote in urdu didn't he?
  15. faizanattari786

    faizanattari786 New Member

    As expected, I was waiting for Ibn Hadi to post here, so he wants to tell the readers, that Asrar Rashid, "strictly warns against making takfir of Deobandis today unless there is absolute proof the person holds kufr beliefs" and "He says we do NOT make takfir of every single Deobandi we see today, because the vast majority of them are not aware of the kufr said over 100 years ago."

    We have several issues here:

    First issue, why does Asrar Rashid call them Deobandis if they are not aware of the kufr of elders? Asrar should call them pure Sunnis like himself or call them Asharis or Maturidis. So by the same token does Asrar make excuses for Wahhabis and Salafis and Ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Najdi.

    Stop pretending naive or fooling around, the real fitna maker is you. I wanted to reply to your khalwa imagination and also those Arab scholars who got tricked by Deobandits for whatever reason (worldly or fame) but suffice is the fatwa of AlaHazrat on your kind.


  16. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    With regards to the accusations of "free-mixing", the vast majority of the Sunni ulama from the Arab world don't consider what the Habaib do as "free mixing".

    You can find several videos like these of Imams from Al Azhar teaching women.

    People from the subcontinent are very hypocritical when it comes to this stuff.
    They permit their sons to go to university with half naked women, or their daughters to go to uni, shopping malls, cinemas etc.

    But God forbid if they go to see a Shaykh in the presence of dozens of other people where there is no Khalwa.
  17. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    AlaHazrat was a master of Urdu and Persian and waited several YEARS before making takfir. This Sarfraz guy probably hasn't even read the fatwa itself.

    It is not the job of the Habaib or other Arab shuyukh to dig into this stuff.

    Shaykh Asrar strictly warns against making takfir of Deobandis today unless there is absolute proof the person holds kufr beliefs.

    I have met graduates of Jamia Ashrafiya in Lahore who have never even read the books of their own Deobandi elders. And they believe that Ala Hazrat made takfir over stuff like Mawlid.

    So even though these people graduated from a Deobandi institute, we CANNOT call them kuffar.

    And as I mentioned earlier, if anyone has an issue with Shaykh Asrar they can go and meet him. He is very easy to meet and doesn't hide like certain cowards do.
  18. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Shaykh Asrar's position on Deobandis is clear cut. This guy Sarfaraz is just trying to cause fitna.
    The Arab shuyukh do not know Urdu or Persian. Leave them out of this stuff.

    Anyone can go to Woodlands Mosque in Birmingham and meet Shaykh Asrar on Friday nights. He has a weekly Dars e Quran.

    He says we do NOT make takfir of every single Deobandi we see today, because the vast majority of them are not aware of the kufr said over 100 years ago.

    We only make takfir of someone who is confirmed to hold those kufr beliefs himself.

    Nowhere does Shaykh Asrar go against Ala Hazrat.
  19. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Does anybody know of any truth to these claims?
  20. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Peoples Imaan is at stake because of Shaykh Asrar’s support of those who endorse the kufr of Deoband!

    “Brother Anser Hussain, Ameer e Ahle Sunnat is not aware of the dealings of the habaaib, or the ways of the Arab shaykooh. If indeed, Ameer e Ahle Sunnat was informed about Habib Umar, especially with regards to his promotion, advocation and endorsement of the Deobandi’s, then most definitely they would not have met him!

    Unlike Ameer e Ahle Sunnat, Shaykh Asrar knows very well the intricate happenings amongst the Arab shuyookh and their methodology.

    The issues of free mixing (men and women being able to see each other, sitting without barriers, mixed events) in the presence of the shuyookh, which they not only engage in but permit.

    The support of the Deobandi’s by the habaaib and even other Arab scholars, such as Dr Samir an Nas who in his public events has made mockery of Sunni Deobandi ikhtilaf and it is well know in sunni circles that Dr Samir does not endorse Ala Hazrat’s Fatwa against Deobandi’s.

    Sunni Ulema who studied in Tarim have confirmed all this (in fact they brought this forward), and currently there is extensive dialogue taking place in Bradford, by Ulema and students of deen, on how best to deal with this Fitna and the Fitna of Sunni scholars, remaining quiet and showing double standards when it comes to the Habaaib.

    Why are double standards being displayed by Shaykh Asrar? He refutes Shaykh Yaqoubi and others, but not habaib who support Tableeghi Jamaat, whilst also endorsing the Deobandi kufr and refuse to endorse the great mujadid Ala Hazrats fatwah!

    Why does Shaykh Asrar share the stage with those who endorse the kufr of deviants? Why doesn't he refute them?

    Why does he allow those who consider the kufr of the Deobandi’s as acceptable, and that there is no difference between Brelvi’s and Deobandi’s? Dr Samir also heavily believes this.

    Brother Noor, What you said about Shaykh Asrar, I used to think the same but the reality seems to something different. Some people will do anything for people to know them as sincere rather than being truly sincere for the sake of Allah. On stage they will present themselves in a certain way, however behind the stage its all different.

    Shaykh Asrar needs to clarify his stance on the habaaib. Why is it that he is keeping quiet when it comes to them, but being vocal for others? Again, double standard are being displayed by Sunni’s. This is a matter of utmost importance, many people’s Imaan is at stake”.

    The above, is my reply to comments on a post on Shaykh Asrar’s Facebook.

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