Sh Asrar and Abu Layth on Nuzul of Jesus alayhi's salam

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by Ibn Hadi, Mar 7, 2018.

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  1. omar zeb

    omar zeb New Member

    The Return Of Isa (Jesus peace be upon him) | Shaykh Asrar Rashid
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    on pdf pages 23-34 of this book Imam suyuti reiterates his support for not just the possibility but also the occurrence of awliya meeting the Prophet (peace be upon him) while awake and taking knowledge from him (peace be upon him) - and not only intimating those present in the gathering about it, but also blessing others with this immeasurably good fortune.

    And Allah ta'ala knows best.
  3. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

  4. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    [Nisa 4:159] There is not one of the People given the Book(s), who will not believe in him (Eisa ) before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.

    this aayah, revealed more than more than 1425 years ago, proves:-

    a. That Syeduna Eisa (alayhe asSalaam) was alive - until the revelation came; going against that would be Kufr. The majority of ahleSunnah believe that he is alive.

    b. All the People given the Book(s) will believe in him before he tastes death. we - the Ahle-Sunnah - say this has not happened, as there are million of Jews, who still haven't left their faith; and there are hundreds of millions of Christians who do not believe Syeduna Eisa to be a 'Prophet'. (They have other wrong beliefs about him, which do not count).

    therefore abu laith must prove the following:-

    1. that Syeduna Eisa had tasted death any time between the revelation and until now.

    2. that all the people given the Book(s), started to believe in him before he tasted death. in other words, he will have to prove that all of them became Muslims.

    a. If he doesn't change his opinion regarding the first issue (with or without proof), abu laith would be going against the majority of scholars of ahle-Sunnah (PS: we don't consider him a scholar, within the minority either).

    a. If he doesn't change his opinion regarding the second issue (with or without proof), abu laith would be out of ahle-Sunnah.

    since when did "not mentioning" by someone, become an "evidence" in Shariah?
  5. Juwayni

    Juwayni Active Member

    @AR Ahmed As Salāmu ʿAlaykum,

    Can you please check your copy of 'The Four Imams' for the discussion on " 'ala suratihi ", as I recall there was ta'wīl given for that narration.
  6. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    1.It is stupid for him to claim to be Maliki but rely on a retarded Mujassim like Ibn Uthaymeen.

    2. Also, the scholars interpreted the hadith in Bukhari to mean that Allah created Prophet Adam in a perfect form. ( Meaning Prophet Adam was a complete human being. It doesn't mean Allah has a form or that Adam looks like God.)

    Anyone who studied basic Aqeedah texts and Kalam would know these things.

    Abu Layth is reaching new levels of stupidity.
  7. Hashim Aftab

    Hashim Aftab New Member

    he also rejects the hadith in sahih muslim regarding dajjal, he cites salih al - uthaymeen, who rejected it because it didn't make sense to him, even though he acknowledged it was authentic. he then goes on to suggest imam malik rejected the hadith in bukhari about Allah creating sayyiduna Adam (alayhi'salam) in his form, suggesting that this was taken from Genesis and has no basis in Islam.
  8. Hashim Aftab

    Hashim Aftab New Member

    in mufti's latest video, he actually gets to the point, and mentions the reasons why he rejects the second coming of sayyiduna isa (alayhi'salam), these are the some of the silly points he mentions:

    1. all (if not most) of the hadith relating to the nuzul are narrated from imam al- zuhri. imam malik possessed twelve-thousand hadith from al- zuhri which he refused to place in his collection because they were 'ghayr ma'qul' - implicitly suggesting the hadith regarding the nuzul are the same.

    2. in his muwatta, imam malik narrates all sorts of hadith, but there is no mention of the nuzul (an extremely silly point)

    3. Allah tells us in the qur'an that everything has its own nature/tarbiyya. e.g, but the hadith regarding the second coming suggests that lions will become 'vegetarians', grazing side by side with its prey, children will be playing with snakes etc etc

    4. the hadith pertaining to the nuzul contradict what we already know about sayyiduna isa (alayhi'salam). i.e. that he was extremely gentle, caring, loving. during his second coming, he will "kill" all the kufaar who reject islam. they will be given a choice between the sword and islam. this also contradicts qur'an, wherein Allah tells us that there is no compulsion in the religion.

    5. he will slaughter the pigs, why an earth would he do that?! imam malik in his muwatta mentions that sayyiduna isa (alayhi'salam) walked past a pig once and said, 'go by, with peace'. again, another blatant contradiction.

    there are much more that he said, i have to commend him for getting to the point as most of his videos are an utter waste of time. having said that, his points are absolutely ridiculous. i will leave it to the learned brothers to refute his points.
  9. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    His background is so shady. He is clearly doing all this to make money.

    I feel these guys who misuse the term "ijazah" and claim to adhere to madhabs are far more dangerous than open Wahhabis/ghair muqallid/etc
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    how about zombie attacks and led by dracula? he dresses up for that part.
    Unbeknown, Bazdawi and Nur al Anwar like this.

    CHISHTI Active Member

    So if abu layth disbelieves in the descent of Hazrat Eisa Aleyhis Salaam...then does it also follow that he denies Hazrat Imam al Mahdi, dajjal, gog & magog as these are all inextricably linked to each other?...what happens to Islamic eschatology according to "mufti" layth? Has he explained how he believes the end of the world will come about?
    Aqib alQadri and Nur al Anwar like this.
  12. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    [Nisa 4:157] And because they said, “We have killed the Messiah, Eisa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah”; they did not slay him nor did they crucify him, but a look-alike was created for them; and those who disagree concerning it are in doubt about it; they know nothing of it, except the following of assumptions; and without doubt, they did not kill him.

    a. The person they crucified and subsequently killed, was the Jew who tried to betray him.
    b. It means the same single person, not two.
    c. Those who doubt, are following the Christians.

    [Nisa 4:159] There is not one of the People given the Book(s), who will not believe in him (Eisa ) before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.

    In this aayah, the Qur'an tells regarding the future, more than 1425 years ago:-

    a. That he is alive
    b. All the People given the Book(s) will believe in him before he tastes death.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Unbeknown and Ahmet Tayfur like this.
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is kufr to believe so as it rejects an explicit aayat of the qur'an.

    surah nisa'a 4:157.


    the aayat clearly negates that sayyiduna yisa alayhi's salam was either killed or crucified (regardless of the degree). alayhi's salatu wa's salam.

    note: the sentence was incorrect with a double negative. it is now updated for clarity.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Aqdas, Unbeknown and Ghulam Ali like this.
  14. Juwayni

    Juwayni Active Member

    Had another question regarding this. I've seen that some who call themselves Muslims say that the crucifixion mentioned in the Qur'ān al-Karīm is the type that leads to death. These people believe that a crucifixion happened but not the type that lead to death, rather, the raising happened after being put on the cross alive.

    Is there any discussion regarding the interpretation of the word crucifixion in our literature and what is the ruling on those that espouse this belief?
  15. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    Abu Layth (Nahiem Ajmal) Mockery Of The Religion

  16. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    Shaykh Asrar did not make takfir. He said Abu Layth’s belief was a bidah but not kufr
  17. Tālib ul-Haq

    Tālib ul-Haq New Member

    Why is it necessary for the ulema to declare kafir someone who is a kafir?

    Because there are many Islamic rulings what are related to Muslims alone like the permission to lead the prayer and like marriage both in it being contracted and in it remaining contracted and like the laws related to inheritance.

    Further understand that the ulema do not make kafir nor can they make kafir someone who is not a kafir, the persons themselves have within them disbelief and it is the ulema who make apparent the ruling of that disbelief.

    The meaning therefore of takfeer is not making someone a kafir rather making apparent someone to be a kafir.

    Rejecting the return of Sayyiduna Isa upon Him be peace and blessings is disbelief and they who reject it have disbelieved.

  18. Tālib ul-Haq

    Tālib ul-Haq New Member

  19. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    I feel so sorry for kids who grew up in the West and looked up to clowns like these as scholars.

    Some of his fanboys say that he is the best scholar of Fiqh and Hadith in this era.
    It is a sign of Qiyamah honestly.
  20. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    then why should anyone legally accept this jaahil as a mufti?
    Ghulam Ali likes this.

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