i had started this translation on 10th nov and then forgot mid-way. something jogged my memory and i finished it today - so i didn't go back to listen to the earlier portion. i might have misheard something; let me know for corrections. --------------- ---------------- there are two examples here about those who claim ijtihad in fundamentals of religion [usul al-din]. and he says, "i oppose certain absolutely-proven precepts [qaTyi'yat] and known to be necessary precepts of religion [ma'alum mina'd din bi'd darurah]. [he claims:] i am a mujtahid and i have the right to hold a different opinion. --- i have selected two examples here. one from usul al-fiqh and another from usul al-din. first is the saying of adnan ibrahim. and hasan ibn farhan al-maliki as i have understood from his (statements). and abu yarub al-marzuqi according to my understanding as it is clear from many of his writings. and many others who speak on religion in our time that: the jew and christian, remaining on his own tradition (or faith) will attain salvation by merely accepting that sayyiduna Muhammad sallAllahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam is a prophet - even if he (jew or christian) does not follow the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. even if he does not follow [the Prophet] or deem his [the Prophet's] rulings to be binding upon himself [j or c]. in particular, in these exact words - is said by adnan ibrahim, and said so verbatim. and others, their statements imply the above; to be fair (they don't say so explicitly) but their statements mean approximately the same as above; but the person who said so explicitly and plainly is the first (i.e., adnan ibrahim). [continuing the mulHid's claim] even if he (J or C) does not follow RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam in any commandment - notice his explanation of the issue - (adnan ibrahim) cites the verse for his proof: that is, people of the book, the jews and christians - all are not the same; among them are good and bad (maleeH wa `aaTil) - and by that it follows, that among them are those who prostrate (sujud) and recite the book etc. and therefore, these jews, christians etc. along with their remaining upon whatever they profess, they will attain salvation. this is how he (adnan) derives evidence from this ayah. --- however this is not the meaning of the aayah. this aayah speaks about those who are sincere and those who are not; those who are truthful and those who are not. but that does not mean that truthful ones among them will attain salvation regardless. rather, they are obliged to follow our Master Muhammad SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam as mentioned in other verses as you know very well. he uses this verse for his proof: [adnan says:] this ayah mentions belief in Allah, and Last Day (judgement day) and did good deeds; and this verse does not mention belief in the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. the text of this qur'anic verse does not mention belief [iman] in the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. therefore these people [adnan ibrahim and others] use this as evidence to prove that it is not obligatory for jews and christians to bear faith in the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. it is sufficient for them, to remain on their christian and jewish religion and their sabian faith; but it is sufficient for them to say: "we will do good deeds and believe in Allah." and they say:"they believe in Allah. and many of them do good deeds. therefore they will attain salvation on judgement day." and what is more surprising [or shocking] than all this; i was flabbergasted at adnan ibrahim when he said concerning the council of christians, if i remember well in 1965, in vatican with the pope himself (present) or the council attested that: 'we accept that salvation is possible for (christian) denominations other than catholicism or non-christians." [sh. foudah's interspersed comment:] the resolution passed by the council did not specify that muslims per se will also gain salvation. they simply said, salvation is "possible" for those who are not catholics or even those who are not christians. based on the case, that they are sincere and they do good deeds and they do not seek mischief on earth etc. this is the gist of the resolution of the vatican council. [aH: probably the second vatican council; see pope's statement here.] --- this brother [adnan ibrahim]; what does he say? he says something revolutionary. he says: "based on this giant step forward taken by christians, should inspire muslims to [sh. foudah again interrupts with his own comments:] notice the vatican resolution does not specify muslims actually - it is a generic comment; and quite possible that they (the council) have a specific meaning in the context of their discussions, unlike that asserted by this man (adnan). that is, their intention/meaning might be entirely different but this man [akh=brother] is enthusiastic and in his eagerness says [adnan says]: "that we should also take steps to match them" [sh. foudah:] what? is it some sort of political reciprocation? that they did thus, so we too should match them? and he [adnan ibrahim] says: "it is necessary for us as well to say that salvation is possible for non-muslims despite their remaining as non-muslims". [sh. foudah:] in my life, i have not seen this kind of ijtihad, this kind of methodology. if a president or a minister [of government] or a journalist says such things, it can be understood. but you [adnan] claim that you are a mujtahid in fundamentals of religion and that its necessary aspects [Daruriyat] and speak like this? this is weird, very very strange. ------------ @4.55 ------------ this discussion is not obscure for you [members of the audience] nor is it hidden from him [adnan ibrahim] because he has himself said: "i am certain that when i say such a thing, muslims will make takfir - rule me kafir." which means, he is aware of the danger of such a statement, but he may have a particular agenda. probably, he has a set objective [sh. foudah changes his mind] i won't say he has an agenda or not, but he is content with saying this over-simplified statement. not to mention, his repeating this statement in conferences, talk-shows, debates, seminars etc. and those who heard this began clapping their hands. great. this is what he wants. and we say what we are satisfied and convinced about. it is not necessary that his statements be applicable to us. and we cannot agree with him that his ijtihad [independent reasoning] led him to say these things. because ijtihad won't lead him to say such things. because there are proofs which are explicit and in far more plain words than that which he [adnan] misinterprets with his ridiculous understanding [or his stupid ideas] and flawed mind. and this guy is always making claims: "i am the smartest person on the planet" or "i read such and such a book in two hours" etc. all of this is empty boasting [kalam faDi/farigh] and appealing to emotion [`aTifi]; it is possible that young folk, ignorant people might be impressed and excited. but people with some seriousness and sense [razanah] will say, 'come on. you are making bizzare claims. and nobody asked you for this.' i don't want to get into such [prob. personal criticism] things but i will present sharayi proofs [refuting his claims] from kitab and sunnah. do you [adnan] say that you are muslim? and he [claims] he understand kitab and sunnah and read razi and zamakhshari and baydawi and quotes such-and-such linguists and derivation etc.. and he says such things which are inappropriate - and one of our brothers, shaykh bilal an-najjar refuted him on the aslein forums [see link here] and i refuted him on another issue.