Sinfulness & of Living in Dār al-Harb

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Juwayni, Apr 17, 2019.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that is correct. though under-emphasised in AQ's post.
    going by the clipping, imam nawawi seems to clarify that even that is not kufr. but let me check the books first. [hold this space].

    insult? the person who posted this quote and presented deceptively, is either an idiot who cannot understand a simple sentences or a third-rate, brown-nosing sell-out - who has grand delusions of his own knowledge and comprehension. or just another rabble rouser, a mischief maker.

    "what else are they hiding?"
    that they already know you are a prize nincompoop.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    yes. to smoke you out of your hole. loved your response. :D
    sherkhan likes this.
  3. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi New Member

    Was there any need for the insults when you don't even know the understanding of the passage yourself yet?
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    was a shocker to me!


    'coz i never chanced upon it in Ala Hazrat's works in as much as i have seen it. in matters of riddah, Ala Hazrat was careful enough to provide a survey of all mazhabs and has also referred to Shafi3i sources many many times.

    anyways, either the guy is a very dumb wahabi, or a deliberate rabble rouser and trying to use reverse psychology to propagate this and then heretics like faraz or hanson or yaqoubi sab will rush to refute him and sing qasa3id in honor of the west

    or seriously mistaken if he is a Sunni (i doubt it)

    you can read volume 10 of Rawdat At-Talibin here

    Kitab Al-Riddah starts on pg 64 of pdf (and published book) and runs until pg 85 (inclusive). my advice is to read the entire chapter first

    it says on pg 65 ending & 66 beginning that he who enters dar al-harb and drinks alcohol with them and eats swine, won't be ruled kafir as these are kabair and kabair do not make one a kafir - standard Sunni position across mazahib. (so why will he be ruled kafir for just entering and trading?)


    (off topic) - coincidentally, the very next passage on pg 66 is about the comprehensiveness of the Ahnaf in listing out the sayings and actions of riddah (deliberately copied above)


    on pg 69, it does say about going to dar al-harb for trade but the context is wearing a zunnar at the waist and then entering dar al-harb for trade, thus giving the impression that he is one of them, in order to sell more, in which case he has committed kufr. (read the paragraph properly to see what i mean)

    it is no different than the ruling of any other mazhab that putting up a sign of kufr makes one a kafir. like if an indian Muslim puts a tilak on his forehead, he becomes a kafir! or if a person wears a cross, he becomes a kafir! (i have seen a few murtads in the west who wear the cross just as a fashion statement deliberately, to look like black american rappers)

    he does not become kafir if he puts a zunnar and enters dar al-harb to rescue Muslim prisoners, because in that circumstance he's a spy and has rukhsah to put up any kufr sign to deceive the enemy.

    that is the ruling - in the case of trade he is wearing zunnar to appear like them and "assimilate" and "integrate" in order to sell his things and make a profit. in the second case of rescuing Muslim prisoners, he is appearing like them to deceive them for the sake of rescuing other Muslims.

    it has nothing to do with ENTERING dar al-harb - bur rather ENTERING WITH A ZUNNAR

    (wallahu a3lam, my understanding and i stand to be corrected) do confirm with a proper Shafi3i mufti regarding that specific paragraph.

    even Hanafi books state that a Muslim army's spy who wears a cross and dresses up like a christian priest and goes to dar al-harb (with full knowledge and permissions of the Sultan and other comrades), he is our spy on their turf (perfect alibi for tahir and minhajians). if he dies in dar al-harb and they see his outwardly signs and give him a kafir funeral, or maybe even Muslims who don't know about his reconnaissance mission, accidentally hand him over to the kuffar for his last rites seeing the outwardly signs on the deceased, in front of Allah he is counted a sincere Muslim.

    in the entire chapter on riddah, there are many examples about activities in dar al-harb, one of which i presented above



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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    abu Hasan likes this.
  5. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    As Salāmu ʿAlaykum,

    Came across the following on facebook.
    1. What do the Aḥnaf say about living in Dār al-Ḥarb?
    2. Is this a correct characterization of the Shafi'i view?
    3. Is there an ijmah on the issue of it being sinful to live in Dār al-Harb?

    Thank you

    * Title should say 'of living in' not '& of".

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