Sunni Ulema on Istighatha / Isti'ana / Tawassul

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by faqir, Jun 16, 2012.

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  1. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

    so zameel al-wahhabi al-deobandi claims muhadis Abdul Haq was confused giving contradictory fatwas!!

    challenge to zameel wahhabi to apply those vague fatwas of shirk on scholars who permitted faqir's link

    everyone is confused except wahhabi deobandi

    you quote from unknown "hanafi" books in your latest farce article, challenge to deoband
    show relied upon position of hanafi madhhab

    can't do cuz ibn abidin shami
  2. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    Zamil al-Rahman quotes the book Lamahat al-Tanqih of Shaykh Abd al-Haq Muhaddith Dihlawi where the Shaykh writes:

    As for istimdād from the inhabitants of graves, some jurists have denounced it. If the denunciation is because they have no hearing, knowledge or feeling of the one visiting and his conditions, then this has been proven to be false, and if it is because they have no power or control in that location to help them but are held back from them and occupied in the trials that occur to their souls which distract them from all else, then this is not regarded as always [being the case], especially for the pious who are the friends of Allāh, and thus it is possible for their souls to acquire closeness to the Lord Most Exalted in the Barzakh, and position and power to intercede and make du‘ā and ask for needs to those visiting and making Tawassul through them.

    I don’t understand the istimdād and imdād that the denouncer is negating. What we understand is that a needy supplicant, in need of Allāh, makes du‘ā to Allāh and asks his need from His Most Exalted grace, and takes the spirituality of this slave brought close and ennobled by Him Most Exalted as an intermediary, saying: “O Allāh, by the blessing of this slave that You have shown mercy to and have ennobled, and the gentleness and honour You have over him, fulfil my need and grant my request, verily You are the Generous Giver.” Or he calls out to this slave brought close and ennobled by Him Most Exalted, saying: “O slave of Allāh, O friend of His, intercede for me and make du‘ā to your Lord and ask Him to give me my request and fulfil my need.” The giver and the one asked and the one hoped in is the Lord Most High and Most Exalted, and the slave in between is nothing but an intermediary. The one with power, agency and control is none but Him, and the friends of Allāh are annihilated in His Most Exalted agency, power and control.

    That which is transmitted from the saints who experience kashf upon istimdād (i.e. deriving spiritual benefit) from the souls of the accomplished and taking benefit from them, it is more than can be counted, described in their works, well-known amongst them, so there is no need to cite them. (Lama‘āt al-Tanqīḥ, Dār al-Nawādir, 7:38-40)

    From here they attempt to infer that istimdad is either of these four:

    1. Tawassul through deceased personalities. E.g. saying: “O Allah, I ask you through the intermediary of” or “by the blessing of so-and-so” “to fulfil this work of mine.”
    2. Deriving blessing (tabarruk) from the mention of someone. E.g. calling out Yā (Sayyidina) Muḥammad (SalAllahu alayhi wa salam) as an act of love and showing a connection with the blessed name, without the belief that the Prophet (ṣallallāhu ‘alayhi wasallam) will hear it directly or that it will necessarily reach him. (as in the hadith of Adab al-mufrad)
    3. Deriving spiritual blessing from the grave of a saint. That is, sitting at the side of the grave and meditating, but not asking for anything from the inhabitant of the grave.
    4. At the grave side, asking the inhabitant of the grave to pray to Allah for the fulfillment of one’s needs.

    Firstly, I must note that Shaykh Abd al-Haq Muhaddith Dehlawi is quoted in another passage in Ashi`at al-Lama`at (1:715, Farsi) as stating that Imam al-Ghazali states to seek help from those who helped you in this world after their passing. Thus, their argument is facile and untenable.

    As for the quote from Shah Abd al-Aziz:

    "People from this Ummah have gone into excess in the matter of istighāthah from pure souls. That which the ignorant and common people do, and what they believe about them of full independence in every action, this is manifest shirk without doubt. (Fatāwā ‘Azīzī, Maṭba‘ Mujtabā’ī, p. 121)"

    The main point from this is regarding believing in istiqlal which is the same with the quote from Lamahat al-Tanqih:

    Yes, if visitors believe that the inhabitants of graves are independent, powerful actors, without turning to the Divine Presence and taking recourse to it, as believed by the heedless ignorant ones…that is prohibited and forbidden. The practice of the common people has no consideration at all. (Lama‘āt al-Tanqīḥ, Dār al-Nawādir, 7:39)

    No Sunni believes that those from among the Awliya Allah have istiqlali power. It is baffling why they are quoting this to us.

    Furthermore, Shah Abd al-Aziz in Bustan al-muhaddithin (pp. 134-135) mentions that Shaykh Ahmad al-Zarruq rahimahullah states that if one says ya Zarruq, he (meaning Shaykh al-Zarruq) will come to his assistance. Had Shah Abd al-Aziz had an issue with this form of istighatha, he would not have mentioned it in the Bustan.

    (thank you to

  3. faqir

    faqir Veteran

  4. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

    Excellent AR Ahmed, keep posting, but also seeking for something that replies to the new twisted mindset of deobandis , now claiming, that Sunni Scholars and ummah have confused tawassul with isthighatha , this is something new and bizarre.

    if you look at their latest attempt to twist the definitions

  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    Imam Taftazani writes in addition:

    بل الظاهر من قواعد الإسلام أنه يكون للنفس بعد المفارقة إدراكات متجددة جزئية واطلاع على بعض جزئيات أحوال الأحياء سيما الذين كان بينهم وبين الميت تفارق في الدنيا ولهذا ينتفع بزيارة القبور والاستعانة بنفوس الأخيار من الأموات في استنزال الخبرات واستدفاع الملمات فإن للنفس بعد المفارقة تعلقا ما بالبدن وبالتربة التي دفنت فيها فإذا زار الحي تلك التربة وتوجهت تلقاء نفس الميت حصل بين النفسين ملاقاة وإفاضات

    “What is apparent from the principles of Islaam, is that there are renewing perceptions of parts for the soul after leaving the body as well as looking at some parts of the lives of the living, especially of those that had a relationship with the dead person in this world. This is why there is benefit in visiting graves, and seeking support from the souls of the pious that have died in terms of seeking experiences and fending off weariness.This is because the soul after leaving the body is attached to the body and the soil it was buried in. So if the living visited this soil and faced the soul of the dead person, then there will be an attachment between them and streams .”

    (Sharh ul Maqasid vol 2 p. 43; translation from

  6. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Active Member

    Scholars who support istighatha/istimdad

    * Imam al-Dhahabi in his Siyar al-Alam al-Nubala (16:400, Arna`ut edition) quoting Imam al-Tabarani, Imam Abu al-Shaykh, and Imam Ibn Muqri' - all three from the Salaf al-Salihun

    * Imam al-Subki in Shifa al-Siqam, p. 357
    * Imam al-Nisa`i in his Sunan, Kitab al-Hibat

    فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أما ما كان لي ولبني عبد المطلب فهو لكم فإذا صليت الظهر فقوموا فقولوا إنا نستعين برسول الله على المؤمنين أو المسلمين في نسائنا وأبنائنا فلما صلوا الظهر قاموا فقالوا ذلك فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

    * Imam al-Bukhari in his al-Adab al-Mufrad (Hadith 967)
    خدرت رجل ابن عمر فقيل له اذكر أحب الناس إليك قال يا محمد

    *Imam al Bukhari in his Sahih in the chapter of من استعان بضعفاء والصالحين في الحرب (see Sahih al Bukhari Sharif hadith 1251)

    * Mulla Ali al-Qari in Sharh al-Shifa quoting the hadith of Ya Muhammadah sal Allahu alayhi wa salam:
    أي فنادى بأعلى صوته (يا محمّداه) بسكون الهاء للندبة وكأنه رضي الله تعالى عنه قصد به اظهار المحبة في ضمن الاستغاثة

    * Imam Ibn Abidin al-Shami in Radd al Muhtar (3:334)

    يَاسَيِّدِىْ اَحْمَدُ يَابْنَ عَلْوَانَ اِنْ تَرُدَّ عَلَىَّ ضَالَّتِىْ وَاِلاَّ نَزَعْتُكَ

    مِنْ دِيْوَانِ اْلاَوْلِيآءِ فَاِنَّ اللهَ تَعَالىَ يَرُدُّ عَلىَ

    مَنْ قَالَ ذَالِكَ ضَالَّتَه‘ بِبَرْكَتِهِ اُجُوْرِىْ مَعَ زِيَادَةٍ
    FaqirHaider likes this.
  7. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

  8. faqir

    faqir Veteran

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