that Allah can lie (ma'adh Allah) is a mutazili belief (also devbandi)

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by abu Hasan, Dec 27, 2020.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i have mentioned it in my book truth, which in sha'Allah, will be released with some additions and clarifications. until then, here are some quick excerpts:

    since either devbandis - the high priests and the low life scoundrels - have neither read books of kalam or purposely ignoring historical facts and concealing it from their mindless followers, here, i venture to teach the dayabina some history.

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    mu'tazili belief: Allah ta'ala has power over uttering falsehood and committing oppression, except that he does not do it.

    in maqalat of imam al-ash'ari, vol.2 p.209:

    maqalat, v2p209.png
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    abu hudhayl said: Indeed Allah sub'hanahu wa ta'ala has power to do oppression [zulm wa'l jawr] and utter falsehood [al-kadhib]; and that He can do oppression and tyranny and utter a lie.

    however, He does not do such thing because of His Wisdom and His Mercy; and it is impossible that He would do such things.

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    abu Musa said, similar to most of the mutazilis: Indeed Allah sub'Hanah has power over oppression and falsehood [zulm and kazib]. but He does not do it.

    and if one asks: "what if He does so?"

    they answered: fundamentally, He will not do it. but this is an ugly objection/statement; one cannot attribute such thing to the pious people among muslims, similarly it cannot be said about Allah ta'ala. because, it is not permissible to say: "if abu bakr committed adultery or ali commited disbelief, what is the ruling concerning them both?" but we know by proofs that Allah sub'hanahu will not do oppression. therefore we deem the saying: "if he committed oppression" is an ugly thing to say.

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    NOTE: i had erroneously attributed the statement to al-ash'ari which will be corrected in the coming edition. the statement "such a vile thing cannot be attributed to pious muslims" is not imam ash'ari's own statement.

    HOWEVER, imam al-ash'ari's (raDiyAllahu anhu) own words from al-luma' are a big stake in the devbandi's coffin and the heart of this mutazilah heresy.

    this actually refutes the immensely moronic idea that - if creatures can lie and Allah cannot lie, somehow Allah's Power is diminished. ta'ala Allahu uluwwan kabeera amma yasifun al-Dhalimun. alahazrat imam aHmad riDa khan alayhi raHmatu'r Rahman also explained it beautifully in the same manner in sub'Han al-subbuH.

    see kitab al-luma' of imam abu'l Hasan al-ash'ari p116-118:

    luma' ashari p117.png
    luma' ashari p118.png



    the argument of imam ash'ari is about anything being inherently ugly or not; imam ash'ari says that things are ugly because Allah ta'ala made them so.

    objection: if it is said that lying/falsehood is ugly because Allah made it ugly
    we answer: that is correct. if He (Allah) had said that it is good, we too would say that it is good. and if He commanded us to do that, there would be no objection upon His Command.

    objection: and if they say: then say that it is possible for Him (Allah) to lie, just as you have said that it is possible for Him to Command us to lie?
    we answer: every thing that is possible for Allah ta'ala to Command does not mean that it is permissible for Him to be Attributed with.

    do you not see that He has commanded us to pray and to bow and to make movement; but it is not a possibility for Him that He can pray or bow down or make a movement. because these it is impossible to attribute Him with such things.

    so also, falsehood is impossible for Him. it is not permissible to attribute Him with falsehood. just as it is not permissible to attribute him with Power to make a movement (Himself) or to be devoid of knowledge (yaj'hal).


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    the difference between ashayirah and maturidiyah is not about the fact that falsehood is precluded from Divine Power. both agree that falsehood is muHal and Divine Power does not concern it. however we disagree on the proof for this belief.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2020

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