The Quran is not preserved, but The Dhikr is... need explanation

Discussion in 'Ulum al-Qur'an' started by chisti-raza, Sep 30, 2017.

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  1. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the second portion highlighted by original poster, about the 'seven letters' etc. etc. is another set of confusion, just as the brother said:
    in sha'Allah, i will try to share what i know. wa billahi't tawfiq.
    Aqdas likes this.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is the disease afflicting majority of speakers in our day: superficial learning and they fill the huge gaps in their knowledge by imagination or their own interpretation which is limited by their shallow knowledge. 'i don't know' or 'perhaps i need to look up' are profanities. one can never say that on stage.

    i don't know much about the speaker, but within this clip, what he says about the qur'an is wrong; or at the least misleading and a hotch-potch description. this is like someone shooting in all directions and hoping to hit a fast flying target.

    15.51: remembrance. fa hal min muddakir. as Allah ta'ala says repeat one of the great themes of the qur'an. hal min muddakir. is there anybody who take heed. Allah sub'Hanahu wa ta'ala says: and the work of imam haddad is which we...the path of those who take heed or heed the remembrance.

    16.30: dhikra tanfa'aul mu'minin. verily the reminder will benefit the people of faith. Allah ta'ala mentions one of the most common themes in the qur'an is this theme of remembrance; and one of the names of the qur'an is itself the dhikr. and that is what Allah ta'ala preserves. and Allah ta'ala literally, in the full essence, it is not preserved the qur'an. that is not what is preserved. Allah ta'ala has not preserved the furqan. that's not what's preserved. it is not preserved. and i mean ...[unclear].. that is not what's preserved. what is preserved, is the dhikr. the remembrance. that is why we sent down the dhikr. Allah says: inna lahu la hafizun. that is what we will preserve. the dhikr.

    anybody who claims the entire qur'an is been preserved [...]from the ahd of Rasul SallAllahu alayhi wa sallama is mistaken. thats not what is preserved. rufiy. raised. great amount was raised unto Allah sub'Hanahu wa ta'ala fi ahdi'r rasul, in the time of the Rasul fi ahd as-Sahabah, in the time of the Sahaba raDiyallahu ta'ala anhum wa arDahum, but what remains is the essential themes, the necessary themes that everybody will need upto the yawm al-qiyamah, muswaddah inside of the kitabAllah, ma bayna daf'atay al-muS'Haf kalamAllah; as ayishah said, what is between the two daf'atay, between two sides of the muS'Haf... the covers of the muS'Haf...that are the words of God sub'Hanahu wa ta'ala.

    [please correct if any mistakes in citation above, had some problem with the accent]

    why can't people think and talk clearly, particularly when certain concepts/ideas are clearly explained by previous ulama? if one has to speak to the common public, they must organise the ideas and present them coherently, adding clarifications where required to prevent common people from drawing their own conclusions or leaving them confused.

    in the above short snippet:

    - according to osi-efa, in summary: "the qur'an is not preserved, but dhikr is".

    - and he also says: 'and one of the names of the qur'an is itself the dhikr'.

    so the following questions arise:

    - what is dhikr that osi-efa is talking about?

    - what is 'remembrance' and 'easy to remember' mentioned in the qur'anic verse he quotes?

    - what do we mean by kalamAllah and qur'an - are they both the same, or are there linguistic and differences depending on context?

    - is he also talking about nasikh-mansukh when talking of the preservation of the qur'an?

    - and finally, what does he mean by 'preservation'? and where?

    buruj v21-22.png

    maHfuz is with jarr or raf'a? and if raf'a what about does it say about 'preservation'?
  4. MoslemMale

    MoslemMale New Member

    Asalaamu alaikum, I was listening to this lecture by Ibrahim Osi-Efa. @ 16:30 onwards he makes a statement about The Quran not being preserved, this surprised me alot and then @ 51:00 onwards he tries to explain his point but ends up not only surprising me but confusing me even more.

    can anyone explain to me what hes on about? JazakAllah.

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