True understanding of Hadith of Jabir

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by Ahmet Tayfur, Feb 19, 2017.

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  1. SunniRadawi

    SunniRadawi New Member


    جزاك الله خيرا

    Is there a consensus for a specific meaning of the 'Nur' of Allah ﷻ?

    What understanding of 'nur' can be used for the Holy Prophet ﷺ?
     
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    The first creation of Allah Subh'anu wa Ta'ala which was created directly (bila wasitaa), whereas all other creations were brought into existence from RasulAllah's noor (bil wastah)
     
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in his book al-asnaa fi sharHi asmaa' Allah al-Husna, shaykh ibn al-arabi lists that the knowledgeable folk have identified six (6) probable meanings of "nur"

    asna 1/459-460:

    1. the Absolute Guide (al-Haadi); this is the opinion of sayyiduna ibn abbas raDiyAllahu anhu.

    2. the Illuminator (al-Munawwir); this is the opinion of sayyiduna ibn mas'uud raDiyAllahu anhu. and in his reading: 'the Illuminator of the heavens and the earth' [munawwiru's samawati wa'l arD]

    3. the Adorner (al-Muzayyin); this is synonymous to the above meaning. i.e. the Illuminator; this is the opinion of hazrat ubayy ibn ka'ab raDiyAllahu anhu.

    4. the Manifest (al-DHahir)

    5. the Owner of Light (dhu'n nur)

    6. Light, but unlike any other light; this is said by shaykh abu'l Hasan al-ash'ari.

    asna, v1p459.png

    =====
    elaborating on the sixth point he writes further, 1/462-463:

    ..and it is according to this the statement of shaykh abu'l Hasan al-ash'ari raDiyAllahu anhu should be interpreted when he said that this name should be taken upon its apparent meaning.

    when he said - may Allah have mercy on him - "Allah is light unlike any other lights", it is incorrect to assume that he intended the meaning of 'body made of physical light [jismun nurani] unlike other radiant bodies [ajsam al-nuraniyyah]. because we know that his madh'hab advocates transcendence of Allah [tanzih], most High. thus, Allah is Light [Nuur] in such a meaning that every light obtains from His Light.

    al-khattabi said: it is impermissible to assume that Allah ta'ala is a light like lights; because light is opposed to darkness, and it drives away darkness. Exalted is Allah from having an opposite, an opponent or an adversary or an antagonist or a rival!


    asna, v1p462.png
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    cannot. read my longer post.

    ---
    remember that anything you imagine is unlike Allah ta'ala. noor does not mean physical light. period.

    imam sanusi in his sharh asma'a Allah al-Husna says:

    sanusi sh.asma p64.png
     
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  5. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I read in one of the Sunni books long time back (and can't recall where I did) that the metaphor of the Noor of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) being 'created' from the Noor of Allah (azza wa'jal) is like that one lamp being lit by the light of another lamp. The light of the 2nd lamp is not a physical part of the original light/lamp; but has been created as the result of the first one.

    Not sure if this is a relied upon interpretation or it still violates the fundamental principle.
     
  6. RazaRaza

    RazaRaza New Member

    Can you say the Noor of Rasoolullah صلى الله عليه وسلم is physical noor but not the physical noor of Allah?
     
  7. MoslemMale

    MoslemMale New Member

    so what is Nur of RasulAllah (salAllahualhiwasalaam) then, metaphorical or literal (like Angels)?
     
  8. Inwardreflection

    Inwardreflection Well-Known Member

    Salaam, Please explain in light of Allah's Name Al Noor
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    short answer: nur of Allah, or nur FROM Allah means nur created by Allah. similar to the phrase naaqatAllah, the she-camel of Allah; or baytAllah, the house of Allah; arD-Allah, the good earth of Allah;
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2017
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  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    one of the fundamental and unequivocal statements of our faith is that Allah ta'ala is unlike anything in creation (and He is the Creator of everything).
    upload_2017-10-12_8-9-24.png

    ---
    you must first recognise the limitation of the human mind; if you do not have an example, you cannot understand it, much less visualise it. for example, if i tell you that i pjorred a bxusmon - you will not understand a thing. don't read below and try to think about these two words for a few seconds...
    .
    .
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    .
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    now, if i tell you that a bxusmon looks somewhat like an apple, has the colour of a peach, and tastes like a grape; an image begins to form in your mind as well as the idea about the other word 'pjorred'. obviously, a further clarification is required to know whether pjorred means 'eating' or whether it means 'drinking the juice of' or 'using it as a spread' - but the mind begins to make approximations. interestingly, every one of us has a different image or approximation depending on our knowledge and experiences. until you see and taste the bxusmon (again information relayed through the five senses) you don't KNOW what it is.

    without an example, the mind draws a blank. and we learn and understand only by similitude. many times we experience something which cannot be described in words. our feelings, happiness, anger, embarrassment etc are not describable per se. we explain the effect of such an emotion to convey what it is, or use examples of what happens when you are happy or the degree of happiness ("when you are out of a job for a couple of years and broke, and suddenly you get a job-offer for a senior position...that kind of joy".

    the taste of an apple or grapes or a rambutan cannot be described or explained in words, even though 'taste' is more tangible than emotions; anxiety or fear, for example.

    one can conjecture, but the understanding would be closer to reality only by sheer coincidence. if you honestly tried to think about those two words i first said, you would not have imagined a fruit, much less the description i gave you, except by coincidence.

    ----
    so how can you explain something without similitude or example? there is nothing like Him. nothing is like Him. He is beyond your imagination and intellect. so why do you seek to 'understand' or know him? the great ones among us* humbly acknowledged this, and their acknowledgement of their inability to understand is deemed their greatness.

    thus, anything that comes to the mind such a physical light and 'apportioning' it etc are invalid descriptions when said about Allah ta'ala. this is the rule of the index-finger concerning tawHid.


    ----
    wa ma in jawharun rabbee wa jismun
    wa la kullun wa ba'Dun dhu'shtimali.

    wa ma't tashbihu li'r RaHmani wajhaa
    fa Sun `an dhaaka aSanaaf al-ahaali

    read a short explanation in the booklet here:
    http://www.ridawipress.org/wp-content/uploads/amali.pdf


    Allah ta'ala knows best.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    * humans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Allah ta'ala is free from being a body. A body is physical. So when we say Allah is 'nur' - this isn't a physical nur.
     
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  12. MoslemMale

    MoslemMale New Member

    can you elaborate on the '...the 'nur' to be phyiscal...' part please. what do you mean by physical?
     
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    So if this statement can be tweaked, I would appreciate it as I feel there are people who actually believe that RasulAllah ﷺ is nurAllah in the real sense.
     
  14. Ahmet Tayfur

    Ahmet Tayfur New Member

    A Necessary Clarification!




    This relates to how one must understand the hadith of Sayyidunaa Jabir (Allaah be well pleased with him)


    رواه عبد الرزاق بسنده عن جابر بن عبد الله بلفظ قال قلت: يا رسول الله، بأبي أنت وأمي، أخبرني عن أول شيء خلقه الله قبل الأشياء. قال: يا جابر، إن الله تعالى خلق قبل الأشياء نور نبيك من نوره،




    Love has limits which should not be transgressed or else the person will fall into disbelief!


    The belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah (Ash’ari & Maturidi) is that Allaah the Exalted is One and is not divisible into parts. He, Majestic is He, is free from a bodily form or being comprised of parts.


    Regarding the light (Noor) of the Noble Messenger of Allaah (Allaah bless him & grant him peace); it was the first creation of Allaah the Exalted and from it stemmed the creation of all else that exists of that which is known and unknown to us, but known to Allaah the Exalted.


    Whosoever holds the belief that the light of the Noble Messenger of Allaah (Allaah bless him & grant him peace) was created from a “portion” or “ a piece was taken” from the Light (Noor) of Allaah the Exalted or in the other instance holds the belief that the “Light of Allaah” is a physical element is a kafir.


    This is not the belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah (Ash’ari & Maturidi) but is a belief held by an anthropomorphist who believes in a god that can separate itself into portions.

    .........

    Can the learned brethren, Shaykh Abu Hasan, Shaykh Aqdas et al provide any corrections/amendments and/or addtions
     
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  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    It's crucial that Ahlu's Sunnah - specifically our awaam - understand the true meaning of the Hadith of Jābir.

    It reads:

    إن الله خلق قبل الأشياء نور نبيّك من نوره
    Indeed Allah created before anything else, the light of your Prophet from His light.

    The word من here is ibtidā'iyah (to indicate beginningness). It is of tashrīf (nobility). It means the nūr had a beginning (ibtidā') and was created by Allah and it is under the authority of Allah.

    Just as we say BaytAllah for ka'abah sharif because it has a connection to Allah - we say NūrAllah to show the light of RasulAllah ﷺ has a special connection to Allah.

    The من in no way means the light of RasulAllah ﷺ is a part or portion of Allah. That would be kufr.
     
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    which
     
  17. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Is the statement ok then? Can we better it?

    It's essential because I believe this concept may have been badly misinterpreted by many!
     
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  18. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    imran hosein is a perfect idiot.
     
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  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    9. hashiyah jamal ala jalalayn,
    vol.2 p.570

    jamal, v2p570.jpg

    10. hashiyah sawi ala jalalayn, ahmad al-sawi [d.1241 AH]
    vol.2 p.249

    sawi, v2p249.jpg
     
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  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    8. hashiya qawnawi ala bayDawi, isamuddin ismayil al-Hanafi[d. 1195 AH]
    vol.11 p.148-149


    hashiyaqawnawi, v11p148.jpg

    hashiyaqawnawi, v11p149.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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