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Discussion in 'Language Notes' started by samir_shaikh, Jan 14, 2019.
three examples from mu'allim e thaani ta'ifah e najdiyyah
i know this and i understood it the very first time i heard it from usman and i have already refuted it. people are repeatedly 'teaching' me and 'explaining' what usman is saying even after i have explained why he is wrong at least two times.
guys, don't answer for others. i don't know if the new guy tariq owaisi is a sunni - and he is asking a question, which is already answered. hence my asking him: what is YOUR point?
yes, i know and i retorted that even your elders used the same thing.
this is not a 'my-dad-is-stronger-than-your-dad' match between kids. if usman claims that a statement is blasphemy - then he must:
1. first make a statement, a claim that it is blasphemy.
2. then prove it by mutually accepted authorities that it is indeed blasphemy.
3. only then the next additional proof of 'ilzami jawab' will make sense. "look even according to your principles it is blasphemy." this is tertiary evidence.
one cannot make a song and dance about #3 without the committing to the first two.
because if it is not blasphemy according to your own conviction and your own authorities, there is no point in finding statements in your opponents books only to sneer at them. you cannot issue a fatwa based on a source you do not acknowledge.
to put this issue in perspective, usman's proposition is like this:
1. mawlana naqi ali khan and his son used the word: 'tuu' in the translation of the qur'anic verses.
2. this according to mawlana naqi ali is disrespect.*
3. hence it is blasphemy.
4. WAAA.WAAA.SCREECH.SCREECH. BLASPHEMY. ASRAR RASHID COMMITTED BLASPHEMY. YAA WAAA.
5. however, senior devbandi scholars such as mahmud al-hasan and shafi usmani ALSO used the SAME words in the same translations. but don't look at that. because we don't consider it blasphemy.
*which is itself a false premise, but that is what usman's claim is.
usman MUST state it with conviction that he believes this translation to be blasphemy. notice, how he appears holier than thou, saying this is referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. and if it is indeed blasphemy, it applies to all the devbandis who have used 'tu' in their translations of qur'an and hadith referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. trust me, it will gut the entire devbandi edifice.
give me one reason why the video should not be captioned "devbandi elders commit blasphemy"? as i have demonstrated that the very same verses have been translated in the very same manner by devbandis. it is clear that devbandis are hypocrites. what is kufr for others is not kufr when their own maulvis say it. this is old news.
to usman: stop acting like a drama queen and retire in the shadows. salvage whatever little is left of your izzat.
Sh. Abu Hasan, this deobandi doesn't know or understand urdu properly. Usman Deobandi Zameel Deobandi are clutching to straws.
using TU / TUM with respect to Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallem)
is blasphemy because it is disrespect to address in a such a way (that's what the DEO is saying that our scholars say so and then he bring the quotes from Imam Mutakalimeen Allamah Naqi Ali Khan that using TU .....)
Then he brings OUR URDU QURAN Translation and says if using TU is disrespectful than why have we used it (meaning we have become kafir according our own )
example surah 101
وَمَاۤ اَدۡرٰٮكَ مَا الۡقَارِعَةُ ؕ ﴿۳﴾
اور تو نے کیا جانا کیا ہے دہلانے والی ﴿۳﴾
some used TU / TUM and some used AAP
اور آپ کيا سمجھے ہيں کہ (ہر شے کو) کھڑ کھڑا دينے والے شديد جھٹکے اور کڑک سے مراد کيا ہے، ﴿۳﴾
Poor chap doesn't understand the difference between translation of Quran and addressing elders in literature
QURAN is not prose or literature and hence it is OK
DEO IQ is going into -30
don't get what you are driving at.
Moulana Naqi Ali Khan and Imam Ahmed Raza (rh)
Salam Abu Hasan.
What did the ulema actually say? Tu when used for direct calling is disrespectful and we have been taught that by our elders but as part of an idiom, third person reference etc?
what i found amusing was the shallowness in usman's argument.
usman says: 'according to your own principles this is blasphemy'
we say: EVEN according to devbandi principles, this is not blasphemy because, devbandi elders have used the same words.
oh, yeah. i know.
usman is a moron, like most other deobandis.
this is why shaykh asrar wanted to show that he doesn't understand the basics of debate. and most are so stupid, and their ignorance of basic principles is extremely annoying. this is like discussing cryptography with village idiots who cannot add 3 digit numbers.
if he is making a claim that it is blasphemy, then it applies to his elders as well.
we have a very very local term for such people: patrolli. there were mad men (and women) who would roam the city and keep collecting plastics from everywhere. nobody knew why they did so. but collect they did, and did so diligently.
zameel, usman and the rest of this lot looks like patrollis to me.
these are juvenile arguments. if usman is serious, he should send the statements to ulama with an istifta and produce a fatwa that indeed, x or y or z has committed blasphemy. the poor tramp does not even understand the meaning of 'blasphemy'. he keeps calling everything 'blasphemy'. like a parrot that is taught a few words and is incapable of saying anything else.
there is so much in devbandi literature, that if we began mentioning them, usman and devbandis will have nowhere to hide. we only criticised those things that are explicit insults (which these shameless folk keep justifying. may Allah give them their just recompense.)
these are cowards. if they were real men with courage and conviction, or if they were serious about religion, they would not jump around screeching like monkeys. if a muslim thinks that someone has committed blasphemy, you must certainly call it out and issue a fatwa (or ask for a fatwa) or at least have the courage to state what your own opinion is.
but no. they just insinuate without actually making a commitment themselves:
1. can usman tell us what HE thinks about these passages? are they blasphemy or not? if yes, will he consider these ulama kafir or not? if not, why not?
2. if you won't answer the above, it proves that you are either ignorant, or dishonest or afraid or just a malcontent trying to stir up trouble because you cannot state what you actually believe.
the rest is all monkey-dance, only to entertain the devbandi gallery.
as for the 'tuu' argument, it is common sense - and only a hell-bent muta'aSSib will buy usman's argument. mawlana naqi ali khan's example is about someone addressing their father, teacher or a king with a 'tuu'. everyone agrees that it is disrespect. even devbandis (i hope they do; unless, alas, their blind bhakti for their own ilk overcomes..) will agree that calling a teacher or one's father in their face as 'tuu' is disrespect.
then there is that zameel guy who has a perennial affliction of verbal diarrhea - he thinks that filibuster is a fine way to hide one's incompetence and weak argument. in addition to skulduggery, which is the expertise devbandis are known for.
let them do all they want, humiliation is in their muqaddar. khadhalahum-Allah.
@abu Hasan- I dont think that Uthsman is saying that saying tu is disrespect but rather what do sunnis say in light of the fatwa that Maulana Naqi Ali Khan gave, which it seems that he has misinterpreted to suit his own agenda.
Why doesnt someone make a YouTube channel and debunk these devbandi idiots.
anyway, what the moron did not understand is that these are translations of the qur'an and the translators (including devbandis) have tried to be close to the literal word. besides, Allah ta'ala is addressing his slaves - not that imam ahmad rida khan is addressing RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. that simple thing has eluded this blockhead.
also, imam naqi ali khan is talking of calling someone 'tuu' in his face. it is certainly disrespect. but the same in arabic or english is not disrespect. 'anta' or '---ka' in arabic is not disrespectful even if a son says this to his father, or his teacher, or the king.
secondly, mawlana naqi ali khan did not say that 'tuu' is disrespect in every case. he was mentioning a general principle. however, in poetry or in such prose where one is speaking endearingly about someone, [and this is not addressing someone in their presence] the use of the word 'tuu' is commonly used and is not deemed disrespectful usage. so the 'urf in poetry or literature is, that "tuu" can be used as a term of endearment and is not disrespectful.
anyway, this is the level of devband. idiots.
here is a lowlife moron, who is justifying REAL insults spewed by his own elders, by creating far-fetched meanings and imaginary insults from harmless statements of sunni ulama. as i have been saying - looking at taqi usmani, zameel devbandi and most deos, it doesn't appear that they believe in judgement day.
if usman devbandi wants more examples, just make another video.
so 'tuu' is blasphemy?
according to usman devbandi, mahmud al-hasan devbandi is a blasphemer; so also shafi usmani.
please note the same verses:
mahmud hasan devbandi's translation. perhaps usman needs to look up who mahmud al-hasan is, do look up and call him a blasphemer. please do, please do.
of course, taqi usmani may not like it, but usman devbandi calls shafi usmani a blasphemer. enjoy zameel and co.
(note: none of the 'barelwis' ever called them blasphemers, for using the word 'tuu')
shafi usmani munafiqun:
where did they dig out this moron from?
a well known phrase comes to mind: it is better to keep quiet and let people assume that you are an idiot, rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.