Wahabis on Imam Ashari

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by absalih, Nov 1, 2010.

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  1. absalih

    absalih Active Member

    [FONT=&quot]This wahhabi seems to be ignorant of history too.Imam Hibatullah Ibn Asakir.Ra(d.571.AH), who wrote ‘Tabyin’ lived in 6th century, and not 7th and had died before Imam Ibnul Jawzi.Rah(d.597.AH)[/FONT]
    Shaykh .G.F.Haddd wrote:
    `Ali ibn al-Hasan ibn Hibat Allah ibn `Abd Allah, Thiqat al-Din, Abu al-Qasim, known as Ibn `Asakir al-Dimashqi al-Shafi`i al-Ash`ari (499-571), the imam of hadith masters in his time and historian of Damascus was the author of
    [FONT=&quot]‘ Tabyin Kadhib al-Muftari Fima Nusiba ila Abi al-Hasan al-Ash`ari’, [/FONT]a defense of al-Ash`ari and his school which he divided into the following sections:
    a) Genealogy of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash`ari
    b) Prophetic hadiths that pertain to him
    c) Al-Ash`ari's renown for knowledge
    d) His renown for piety and worship
    e) His struggle against innovations and their
    f) Dreams that indicate his high standing
    g) Five generations of his students
    h) Those who attacked al-Ash`ari and his students
    He concluded the book with the following lines of poetry:
    I have chosen a doctrine that in no way resembles
    innovation But which successors faithfully took from
    predecessors. Those who are impartial declare my doctrine
    sound While those who criticize it have abandoned
    To download ‘Tabyin(Arabic) :

    English (partial) :
  2. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    The Wahabi author has not provided any reference for his comments.

    He should be asked to name all the mujaddid in the last 1300 years, so that we can see the belief of these mujaddids.
  3. faqir

    faqir Veteran

  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    there is nothing to refute. all of it is balderdash spewed by an inebriated monkey drunk up on poisoned methane from a putrid swamp.

    say: bring your proof if you are truthful.

  5. Ridwi

    Ridwi Well-Known Member

    Asalamu Alaykum

    A brother forwarded me this email that he received from a Wahabi. And the Wahabi forwarded it to him, there was no debate taking place, he just forwarded it to him.

    Could someone please refute it.


    Your comment that the majority of the scholars in the Muslim world are Ash'aris was, is, an inshaaAllah will remain a myth. Ash'ari was never accepted by the traditionalist movement when he repented. As ibn al-Jawzi said, he lived in hiding in fear for his life. al-Ash'aris predecessor, al-Muhasibi also died in hiding with only four praying over him. They were never accepted by the Sunnis. The Ash'aris were publicly cursed in the Sunni world by Sunni scholars, along with the Mu'tazila and th Rafida, while the Capil al-Qadir would release an edict against them banning them from holding or preaching their views. This creed was signed by the fuqaha of the four schools. Again, this shows that the Ash'aris were only a fringe.

    The Ash'aris only gained SOME legitimacy when the 'Abbasi vizier, Nidham al-Mulk ascended to power and established colleges to propagate Ash'arism: al-madaris al-nidhamiyya. This is when the fitna between the vezier-backed Ash'aris, and the Hanbali public of Baghdad arose which turned into ugly riots. This fitna, in history is known as Fitnah Ibn al-Qushayri; Ibn al-Qushayri being the Ash'ari to cause the fitnah.

    In spite of the support from vizier, the Ash'aris remained a fringe heretic sub-sect, who were rejected by their own Shafi'i co-madhabist. Yet, this support eventually died out and the Ash'ari influence from Nidhamiyya colleges vanished, and by Ibnal-Jawzi's time, we hear of several preachers being expelled from Baghdad for being exposed as Ash'aris. This is in the 6th Islamic century!

    By the time Ibn 'Asakir (7th century) writes his defence of the Ash'aris (tabyin), the Ash'aris still remained a fringe. Ibn 'Asakir writes this book refuting al-Ahwazi - a detractor of al-Ash'ari, who claims that the Ash'aris are just a sub-sect and fringe heretic group. Ibn 'Asakir in response did not mention any statistics to prove or disprove that the Ash'aris are a fringe minority. He conceded that they are a minority, but further argued that it is only the minority which is on the truth! The poing here is that, at least, up until the 7th Islamic century, according to your own Ash'ari scholars, you remained a fringe heretical cult. This is HALF of our history so far.

    So what about the other half of our history? As yourself! You failed to win over your own co-madhabists, like al-Dhahabi, al-Mizzi, Ibn Kathir and other Hanbalite-Shafi'is. We see Ibn Hajar attacking you - the mutakallimun - in his Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari. We find al-Suyuti attacking you for Kalam. Yes, the Ash'aris did become influencial at the end, but only via authority and intellectual terrorism. Just look at the life of Ibn taymiyya. How often he was imprisoned by the Ash'ari fringe, and yet how the Muslim population of Damascus loved him.

    The point being made here, is that firstly, Ash'aris have always remained a fringe, and they remain so up until today. I tell you why:

    1) The Ash'aris to this day remain too coward to express their beliefs, lest they are frowned upon by the audience. How many times I asked you to answer a simple question: Who said Alif-Laam-Meem? Why is it so difficult for you to utter in public - your belief - that Alif-Laam-Meem is in fact created and that Allah never said these letters? Because you do not - yet - want to shock the Muslim Ummah, who unanimously believe that Allah spoke those letters. This is why you explicitly state in works that this discussion should be confined within a classroom setting, lest you are exposed. Try to gain some courage and be like your Ash'arite predecessor, Abu al-Futuh. You know who Abul-Futuh is? He is the Ash'arite who would leave his mosque, wearing thick armoury, mounting his horse, and then proclaiming in public: "This Quran is not Allah's Speech! This is just paper and ink!" while the Muslim population of Baghdad would stone him and throw filth at him. This was your past, and this still remains your present. But you simply do not have the courage of Abul-Futuh.

    2) You remain a fringe group because the Ummah does not know what Ash'arism is about, what substances and accidents are, etc. They read the Quran where it says: Allah rose over the throne, and they believe. In fact, forget the Ummah, even Ash'ari supporters like yourself, are clueless with respect to 'ilm al-kalam, the bedrock of Ash'arish. So really, Ash'aris - those who actually know 'ilm al-kalam - are a fringe within a fringe group.

    mod: i have only changed the color of the text from red to black
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2010

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