Waris Shah

Discussion in 'Siyar an-Nubala' started by saghe_jilani, Sep 25, 2008.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    am i the only person who feels disgusted by nj's libertarianism? is it unislamic to ask him to learn to behave and speak properly on an islamic forum?

    or should we ignore anything he does, just because he supports mawlid and translates alaHazrat's poems? people complain that i 'put down' nj or endlessly 'belittle' or 'badger' him even though he is a 'regular.'

    should we, as sunnis be offended only when others [deobandi/salafi] make mistakes? and is celebrating mawlid a carte blanche, a licence to do anything or say anything? are we not bound by etiquette and propriety anymore once we recite a couple of poems?

    is reciting poems and the proof for mawlid the be-all of all islamic scholarship?

    do we owe our allegiance to the sunnah anymore or not? are we so mentally handicapped that we require a scholar [with multiple ijazahs actually] to explain simple and obvious hadith that outline the etiquette and behavior of a model muslim?

    in today's world, when scholars say whatever they like - is it a crime to question reliability of such scholars? have we become like the catholics in which it is a crime to point out obvious mistakes made by scholars? like wrong attributions of hadith and routinely making a huge case based on weak hadith?* are we that stupid that we must have huge authorizations to recognize and comment on the obvious mistakes - particularly when such mistakes are in clear confrontation with the fatawa of our elder ulama?

    is it adab to keep silent when the sunnah of RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam is freely thrown about?

    is it a muslim's manner to speak about making love and gorgeous blondes [this is not the first time nj has taken to such things] and other titillating subjects?

    if prof.tahir celebrates christmas which has no precedence in islamic scholarship, and we point out that it is wrong - we are not supposed to talk about it; after all, we don't have the hundreds of authorizations he has.

    if shaykh kabbani's majlis is all dancing and singing with men and women, and such actions are rightfully criticized, nj can fly into a rage and say whatever he wants; those who cheer him won't demur. and a person who points out that it is not what alaHazrat taught is riled up as a deobandi!

    is this what alaHazrat taught us? should alaHazrat's name be invoked only for mawlid and takfir of deobandis? should alaHazrat's fatawa be largely ignored on the fiqh of sama'a - and various other issues?

    and we like each other and praise each other to the skies only if we say nice things about each other. speak the bitter truth and get spat upon.

    *i am not a salafi and i know that scholars have recognized that weak hadith can be used in faDayil al-a'amal.
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  2. SA01

    SA01 Veteran

    Brother NJ!! I am shocked!! LOL......LOL.
  3. About the polars bears--are you sure?! ;-)
    British stereotypes of Scandinavia include:

    1. Polar bears in the streets!
    2. All the women are 6 foot tall with blonde hair and blue eyes and are universally gorgeous!
    3. The women wear bikinis on the streets even in the winter!!
    4. You guys spend most of your time making love!

    A bit silly but there you go...stereotypes after all!
  4. Brother Khaadim (btw that's a beautiful nickname you have chosen!)
    :s1: and congratulations on your conversion!

    Thanks for the info. I've always wanted to visit Scandinavia--maybe even work and live there; maybe I will. If you finished your degree it would be easy for you to come and live in England. What is your degree in?

    The disunity you describe is sadly common amongst Muslims everywhere. Wahabism is a big cause of it too. I hear Sweden and Norway, especially Oslo, have loads of Muslims from Pakistan so that might be an option for you too.

    I used to have some Finnish students...interesting bunch of people although a bit wacky!
    ma salama

    p.s. To learn Urdu there are a lot of good self-teaching guides--do a search on amazon.co.uk. Well worth buying.

    p.p.s BTW, as ever I am impressed by the Scandinavians' impeccable English! It must be the Viking genes!!
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
  5. Khaadim al-Mustafa

    Khaadim al-Mustafa New Member

    Well, we don't have polar bears walking in the street. Helsinki is in southern Finland so it's not so cold here. This winter was more of an extended autumn and we had cold weather and thick layer of snow for two weeks.

    I'm a Finnish convert to Islam and I've been studying in Helsinki university for two years now. I've been studying Urdu only this academic year (before it was just a dream). I might be the only person studying Urdu at the moment. There are no contact lessons so I've been getting my Urdu knowledge from books and listening to speeches and naats. I can't speak much Urdu and really have no one to regularly practise with.

    The Finnish Muslim community is disunited and divided by ethnic, tribal and sectarian lines. I used to live close to a Wahhabi masjid where I said the shahadah and prayed for years. We also have Tablighi Jamaat here though they don't have much connection to the Subcontinent because they are mostly Somalis. Finnish converts are equally disunited though many of them are Wahhabi influenced.

    We don't really have scholars but there are brothers who've travelled abroad to study Islam. Some went to "Wahhabi U" in Madina so problems are expected upon their return. I'd like to become scholar myself but I don't know where I could find good scholars and an environment with good healthcare since I have an uncurable medical condition that prevents me from fasting for example. Britain might be a good place but I couldn't afford to live in there without a proper scholarship and financial aid.
  6. Wow! Helsinki University has Urdu Studies?!!
    BTW what is Helsinki like to live in? It is supposed to be a 'cool' city.

    apnaorg.com has panjabi sufi kalam in urdu script.
  7. Khaadim al-Mustafa

    Khaadim al-Mustafa New Member

    Do you know any Islamic Punjabi resources online? All Punjabi material I've found is made by Sikhs who use Gurmukhi script. I'm now studying Arabic, Turkish and Urdu in Helsinki university and I'd like to learn Urdu and Punjabi well. I especially like naats and other Islamic poetry.
  8. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    love it
  9. :s1:
    Here is my first attempt at translating the opening verse of Sayyid Waris Shah's Heer Ranjha:

    1. Avval hamd Khuda da vird kejiye, ‘ishq keeta sau jad da mol miyan
    Pehle aap hii Rabb ne ishq keeta, ma’shooq hai Nabi Rasool miyan
    Ishq pir faqir da martaba hai, mard ishq da bhala ranjool miyan
    Khulay tanhaa naday baagh qaloob andar, jinhaan keeta hai ishq qabool miyan

    First chant the praise of God, who made Love the price of the world, Sir.
    It was God Himself who first loved; the Prophet was His beloved, Sir.
    Love is the station of the saints, the man of love is outwardly sad, Sir
    Inside alone in their hearts are streams, gardens; those who have accepted Love, Sir.

    note that the word translated as Love is 'ishq in the original--a word which means ardent, passionate love. I think this quatrain has a myriad of deep sufi meanings which can be discussed...
  10. Sidi Faqir,
    I have read bits of Heer in the original and a complete abridged English translation. Sadly the translation by an Orientalist removed most of the references to Islam and spiriituality.

    In the text Ranjha asks the 'Five Pirs' [panj pir] for help [istiaanat and Istimdaad] and they appear to him spiritually and advise him. I've always wondered who these 5 are? I think one of them was Sayyidina Ghawth al Azam :ra:

    Also, the Panjabi original has entire initial sections devoted to hamd, naat, manqabats of the Khulafa e Rashideen, Ahlul Bayt, etc before the actual story of Heer and Ranjha begins...

    You can read it online in Urdu script [though the language is panjabi]

    An accurate synopsis can be found on wiki:

  11. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    as-salamu 'alaikum

    jazakallah khairan

    who is Pir Makhdum? also, have you seen any scholarly praise for Warith Shah and if so could you share?

    has anyone read heer ranjha?
  12. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Kasur had been a Muslim Khanate during the Sikh rule of Punjab. Kasur is the place of immense Awliya Allah.

    One of whom is Sayyiduna Bulley Shah :ra:

    His poetry in praise of Islam is even more popular among the common sunni Muslims of the villages whose lives revolve around the Mausoleums of Awliya Allah in Pakistan's Punjab and Sindh.

    Sayyiduna Warith Shah :ra: is in Sheikhupura to the west of Lahore a city Shaykh Nuh visits so often
  13. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Sayyiduna Shaykh Warith Shah :ra: is an immense personality, an immense wali of Allah I cannot imagine

    His sufi poetry narrated to me in translation is so beautiful, that it reminds of of Sayyiduna Imam JalaludDin Rumi :ra:
  14. He is a great wali of Allah who wrote beautiful punjabi naats and manqabats and much sufi poetry. he also versified the story of Heer Ranjha as a metaphor for Divine Love for the salik on the Path.

    He is popular in both Pakistani and Indian Punjab although in Indian punjab the sikhs emphasise the sensual aspects of his sufi poetry more than the spiritual; vice-versa in Pakistan.
  15. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    as-salamu 'alaikum

    I am interested in finding out more about Waris Shah - the author of the Indian Romeo and Juliet - 'Heer Ranjha'.


    [a film - probably made by some Hindus is due to be released where the Bhangra musician Gurdas Maan plays Waris Shah]

    the Hindus call him the 'first secular poet of Punjab who sang full-throatedly about Punjab and Punjabiat and left a writing which is the soulful passionate expression of the Punjabi psyche, culture and aspirations. '

    also, if anyone knows about Pir Makhdum of Kasur could they please share their knowledge.

    Awal hamad khuda da vird keeje
    Ishq kita su jag da mool mian
    Pehlan aap hi rabb ne ishq kita
    Te mashooq he nabi rasool mian...

    "First of all let us acknowledge God (who is self-evident),
    who has made love the worth of the world Sir,
    It was God Himself that first loved,

    and the prophet (Muhammad (SW)) is His beloved Sir"

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