yasir qadhi's toilet paper

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Jun 1, 2020.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    strange. neither fatawa say haram. nor slam everything european is haram inter-alia.
    perhaps yasir has some other reference?

    or should we just speculate while the fake newsmakers and slanderers throw their lies and go merrily on their way without bothering to clarify?
     
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    could there be any other fatwa? such as the one from fatawa afriqiyyah - can you post that one?
     
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Yasir seems to be frantically searching so let us help him. Is this the fatwa you are looking for? Fatawa Ridawiyyah 4:603

    FR v4p603.png

    FR v4p604.png
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    so did yasir provide the reference of alahazrat? hopefully?

    ---
    meanwhile - i have cleaned up my posts below, i had posted rush drafts without review. they read much better now.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
    Tālib ul-Haq likes this.
  6. Tālib ul-Haq

    Tālib ul-Haq New Member

    yasir qadhi is active in his fb post comments so even if he does not reply I am sure he has come across this post.

    aH you could always send him a tweet.
     
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Let's wait for Yasir to provide the reference.
     
  8. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    I think he is referring to the one in Fatāwā al-Āfrīqah.
     
  9. Juwayni

    Juwayni Well-Known Member

    The question's been asked on the original post of his. Though considering there's 300+ comments already there, unlikely he'll respond.
     
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    now, i want to see the fatwa of alahazrat imam ahmad rida khan, that yasir refers to.

    please?
     
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  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    instead of lazy copying, if academics would put their mind and dig to do some research, they would find nuggets. apart from the mention of water used for toilet hygiene given below, tavernier has mentioned in another place:

    PDF page 576, :

    tavernier, c7p42, p575.png


    i have edited the above passage to read better: [only replaced the fs; olde spelling untouched]

    On one side of the Fountain, which is in the midst of the Domo, there is an entrance into the bath, and near that is the Hall, where they uncloath themselves in the Winter_time. A little Gallery which lies on the left hand, leads to the places design'd for the easing of nature, and every seat has a little Cock, which supplies them with water to wash themselves, after they have done. It is accounted a heinous sin among them, to make use of Paper for that purpose; and the reason they give for it is this, that, possibly, the Name of God might be written upon it, or it might contain some Text of the Law, which would be a profanation of it, and consequently ought to be avoided. Besides, they have another opinion, That Paper is not so proper so well to make clean that part, which the necessity of the Body does ordinarily so much defile, but that there may be something of ordure left; and that being oblig'd to present themselves before God with an absolute Purity of Body and Mind, their Prayers could not be heard, if they should not be wholly clean.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    bourke was no scholar. his magnum opus - the scatology - was mainly aimed to titillate his white audience; to make them feel revolted about the practices of savages around the world (in comparison to the 'civilised' white man). he had to bring in the muslim reference somehow and since tavernier's account (which comes with its own share of bigotry, lies and misrepresentations) didn't give it on a platter, he snipped those quotes to suit his purpose.

    at this point i have not reverse searched yasir's text - and even if he is quoting first hand, tavernier comes from bourke's citation thus:

    bourke, p142c.png

    notice the ellipsis, because he is snipping the quotes. i felt there must be a problem with the above quote, and translated from google goes thus:

    Places intended for the discharge of nature...are always clean...Turks are not seated like us when they are in these places, but they crouch on the hole which is raised from the ground only by half a foot or a little more. . . . Turkish and all the Mohammedans in general do not use paper to vile uses, and when they go to these kinds of places they carry a pot plenty of water for washing.

    ----
    the original is in french. we have to make do with a translation.

    https://archive.org/details/sixvoyagesJohnB00Tave

    PDF: https://archive.org/download/sixvoyagesJohnB00Tave/sixvoyagesJohnB00Tave.pdf (~90MB)

    ----
    the passage in question is translated thus:

    tavernier, c13p67, p601.png


    the above book was published in 1678; in an age when prejudices were of different nature.
    also, in printers in the middle ages used an f like character in place of s. (see here for an explanation). i have replaced the fs below for easier reading. with some practice you can read it as it is. i spent 4-5 hours reading the above text to find the passage. i tried searching for "mahometans" but incidentally, it is misspelled as "Mahuma-tanes" in this place, and hence i couldn't arrive earlier.

    page 601 of the PDF.

    =====
    The places appointed for the easing of Nature are on the right hand, divided into four little Rooms, which are alwayes kept very clean, and pav'd with square pieces of white Marble, as the Room of the Fountain is. The Turks do not sit down, as we do, when they are in those places, but they squat down over the hole , which is not half a foot, or little more above the ground. That hole is cover'd with an Iron plate, which rises and falls by a Spring, and turning one way or other, at the falling of the least weight upon it, it comes to the station it was in before, as soon as the ordure is fallen from it. I have observed elsewhere, that the Turks, and generally all the Mahumatanes, do not use paper in such cases, or upon any undecent occasion, and when they go to those kinds of places, they carry along with them a Pot of water, to wash themselves withal, and the Iron-plate is also made clean at the same time. And so the hole being alwaies cover'd, and the Iron plate alwaies kept clean, there can be no ill smell in the place, and that the rather, for that a small current of water, which passes under that place, carries away all the Ordure.
    =====


    that is a description of an impressive system of sanitation/sewerage back in the days. bourke had copied false reports of stench and lack of hygiene and cleanliness in muslim societies; this report of tavernier would contradict his agenda. hence, he snipped them to suit his purpose.

    let us visit yasir qadhi's article:

    ====================
    yasqadi-fb3.png
    ==============================

    the above passage gives the impression that toilet paper was common in tavernier's time and he hadn't the "foresight to pack enough personal hygiene materials, expecting his hosts to provide them."

    whereas, tavernier meticulously recorded the 'why' as well. which a so-called muslim 'scholar' is either ignorant of, OR is too enamoured by western culture that he cannot appreciate the reason why ulama forbade paper to clean ordure.

    even though yasir himself notes that toilet paper was produced only in the 1850s!


    http://www.toiletpaperhistory.net/toilet-paper-history/history-of-toilet-paper/

    https://www.history.com/news/toilet-paper-hygiene-ancient-rome-china

    ----

    this is the level of research - aur ye choozey criticise alahazrat!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i searched for bourke. he was no PhD. he was an american soldier who had dropped out of school, but later in life turned a writer. nowhere does his profile claim that he was a PhD. i fished out a short bio from the american military magazine in two parts (two issues):

    ASSEMBLY, vol.23, fall 1964.
    ASSEMBLY, vol.24, winter 1965.

    bourke.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alahazrat imam ahmad raza khan had more scientific insight and knowledge in his time than most religious scholars of his time. those who try to fault him TODAY would not be competent enough to clear the garbage in his time; and if he were present in our time, he would certainly outstrip most of these choozey who are probably deluded and think that their beaks and vision are similar to the vision, their beaks and power of flight is like that of a golden eagle.

    ---
    i invite yasir to do an academic criticism of alahazrat rather than circulate hearsay and urban legends. but that would require competence and capabilities far beyond idle chatter on facebook. go ahead and pick on alahazrat's fatawa on why it was wrong or incorrect. in sha'Allah we will show some HD videos of the high seas to the frogs in their wells.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yasir qadhi is a standard academic. talks a lot, throws in a few names and expects no one will cross check him. the world is full of these 'gappus'. in fact, such gappus are running countries - trump, modi, bolsenaro etc.

    ----
    yasir lives in a free country and can bloviate as much as he wishes, but i won't take it kindly if he makes false charges against alahazrat. if he is genuine and not a fake, he must prove the below statement with proof - not hot air.

    https://www.facebook.com/yasir.qadhi/posts/10157905524798300

    =================
    yasqadi-fb.png

    =================

    here is a very simple request: which fatwa of alahazrat is he referring to?


    ----
    on examining two other references ("droppings") he provides, one can easily demonstrate that he has not seen either of the two works. like most intellectual slaves, he tries to put down muslims, only in the hope of being applauded by europeans and their 'progressive' ways.

    ====
    about bourke's work, he says:

    As the awareness of the customs of Muslim personal hygiene spread amongst Europeans, it drew academic interest as well, culminating in a PhD dissertation in 1891 on the excrement rites of other nations (by John G. Bourke, and yes it's still available to peruse for those so inclined!).

    ----
    bourke's work (1891) can be downloaded here:

    PDF: https://archive.org/download/scatalogicriteso00bour/scatalogicriteso00bour.pdf (~27MB)
    page on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/scatalogicriteso00bour

    facts about bourke's work: (which yasir would have known, had he even browsed casually)

    1. it was not a PhD dissertation. i searched the book and the biographies of the author but nowhere does it say that it was a PhD dissertation. perhaps the only usage of 'dissertation' yasir qadhi knows is in the context of a PhD, and made that assertion without even looking up the book that he pretends to have read.

    2. the book is about excrement in general and the author himself mentions in the preface that he first made "notes and memorandum" and expanded upon this.

    bourke, p1.png

    3. the book talks about how excrement - human and animal - is used in various communities and deemed important from various religious perspectives. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MUSLIMS/ISLAM as we consider all excrement as najis/impure. only an idiot will claim that this treatise was inspired by the cleaning rituals of islam!

    few examples from the ToC:

    bourke, ToC1.png

    bourke, ToC2.png


    bourke, ToC3.png

    ===

    4. bourke cites contributing authors, orientalists and their outright lies, just to fill in the space about muslims. any muslim can easily identify the blatant falsehoods. yasir should be out refuting them instead of celebrating them.

    talking of latrines (SEE CHAPTER 20), bourke says (quoting others of course):

    a muslim reader will immediately recognise that every word is pure scatalogy.

    bourke, p141.png

    which muslim prays 'stark naked' fearing that drops of urine might have fallen on his clothes?

    which pious muslim does istinja "publicly in the bazaars from a desire to make a parade of their consistent piety"?

    these are figments of orientalists' imagination, who distorted the image of muslims/islam for their european audience and tried to present islam in poor light - in spite of the fact that islam and muslims were/are far superior in morality and hygiene.

    even a house slave would have felt embarrassed to quote such filth.

    ----
    this one is closer to reality but only a man who has never had to clean his private part (or had his part severed in childhood) will fantasise that muslims will rub these parts on stone walls (until they are worn)! christians of that time, who wouldn't wash for ages, making fun of hygiene comes across as pretty rich! everyone knows that richard burton was a filthy liar, but still that didn't stop yasir from quoting him ... (if only yasir had read the book which can be renamed in modern usage as: "the book of BS - real and imagined".

    bourke, p141b.png


    ---
    on p142 more deranged and depraved fantasies of emasculated orientalists:

    bourke, p142.png

    ====
    yasir, kuch to sharam karo.

    [EDITED FOR CLARITY as it was posted last night without any review]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020

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