Why "Islamic" forums are a complete waste of valuable time. And how everyone's full of it

i never asked you to. stay put.

 

I rally don't want to continue with you, but want to comment on the last two lines of your post for the last time.

why not all? Who are those with whom this manner should not be observed.

not sure, but sounds you have a soft corner for napak padri, otherwise a murtad would not inspire you, if you really meant that.

Oh yes, if situation demands i will not fear calling tuq a napak padri even in jamia masjid. I have quit visiting and respecting an scholar when i came to know he supports napak padri while i personally had informed him about his kufriyat, and i don't talk to some of my relatives because they too still support him after they have known his kufriyat.

 

Noori, bradar, that wasnt much if a reply really. Was it?

You're so passionate to call tq padri, then do it in the jamia mosque of your local vicinity. Then we'll see how much passion you really have.

As for your patience- however it works or however my posts are affecting it- really isn't anything to do with the fact that this revolution must take place before I leave.

Maybe tq and Imran khans inqilab has inspired me or maybe Sunni tehreek has (only).

Who knows?

I want abu hassan to provide examples of where and how my logic is flawed and how I've therefore contradicted myself.

Abu hassan, please be fair!

Only that will shut me up

Otherwise i ain't leaving yet

Please note:

You tell me to take a break. But similarly don't you feel that's how sulh kullis/cultists/pir followers/ and many many other wrong people feel when we "rightfully" choose to criticise them?

Of course.

That's why the "manner" of criticism must be considered with most people.

And my manner of criticising sunniport is mild compared to calling people padri etc

 

Yasir, you need a break. Also, i don't know why you are wasting your time here if people aren't taking advice from you, and why should they? It is easy brother, do what you deem is good for you and your sunni brothers, sunni port is not the only place and option for you. If you think your sermons on sunni port are for the same reason, then your are contradicting yourself. You should have quit already by now, but your ego is not letting you do so and you are still hanging around.

Sometimes i too feel very bad and sad that sunnis themselves are causing splits amomg themselves, unfortunately you are not very much different from such zealous brothers.

My advice to you, take a break from the forum(s),reflect for some time on your views, and if you still think that (specially) sunniport and (generally) other (sunni) forums are more a waste of time than supporting ahlussunah then don't visit them.

Alternatively, if you think there is more good that you too support, and there are some bad aspects of it then either ignore those bad aspects or try to correct them in a positive manner. Still, if you don't see any improvement then you have done your job already, now all you can do is to make duaa, and continue doing your part of the good contribution.

I am sure you would recite Quran everyday, i agreed with you and encouraged to memorize Quran, because that is the best utilization of your time, i am not only suggesting but i try also for myslef and making my son memorize it.

As for your irk with nicks, i just thought that at least i should give you my full details to give you a feel of comfort that at least you know a couple of real names, but then i thought what difference it would make? You don't know me, my father, or grand father, i am not a known person except to my family and some friends. And it is true for almost every other person on sunniport. Does having a real name on the post will change the message or views given in posts?

By the way i must tell you, not calling names or not using sarcastic or cutting language may be a polite, effective, or at least a better way of presenting views but i can't stop calling TUQ a napak padri, that comes really from my heart whether you or any other person on here likes it or not. Besides, does saying TUQ serves the purpose? Or how is it different from using napak padri? may be not that extreme, but napak padri's followers will still deem it disrespect. I used napak padri just for an example, though i hate him to be mentioned even for an example.

Let me tell you and everybody here vey clearly that at least i won't stop, at least for napak padri and mark henson, using the titles that they deserve, and will not stop/edit/delete others, even if i am removed from mods of the forum. Contrary to your expectations from the site admis/mods i would prefer to leave this forum if admins stop me as such.

This is my last reply to you, therefore don't demand any answers, i don't have patience like sidi abu Hasan.

May Allah help you and all of us.

 

ya Allah ya Rasul-Allah!

bro, gimme a break please. I did promise to get back to you. I can't type properly from this stupid smartphone neither do I enjoy using phone for internet. I'm moving ND my home PC ND wireless modem are lying in some cardboard box.

you talk abt a haircut ND straightening the borderline on our part, but most of your posts are either a ruthless exorcism or wwf style cage matches i remember from my childhood. Ur style reminds me of jimmy superfly snuka. Look him up on YouTube.

i will get back to this thread in sha Allah, promise.

 

Again, abu hassan seems to get a little emotional instead of admitting that a handful allow his forum to slow down.


1)

I did suggest you burn the road only if you dont begin to prevent or warn charlatans. Otherwise ive agreed if everyone maintains maturity sunniport is good.


2)

You simply only mention my logic is flawed and incoherent without providing actual examples of how and why. Ironic you mention the straw man theory when it applies to you. Unless, in your next post, you provide an actual example of where ive contradicted myself or made an irrational statement.

Straw man applies to you because youre avoiding the actual discussion of the fact that you do need to start trimming certain aspects of this forum or at least admit that you do even if you dont want to.


3)

Noori you mention reading Quran myself rather than just suggesting it. Im sure my first post mentions clearly that this is my last thread among my final set of posts. I hope that clarifies your curiosity.


4)

I agree you may be older and wiser, but that has nothing to do with what im calling for.

I repeat:
sunniport is fine as long as you give it a haircut and straighten the border line. Its a little crooked at the moment. Thats all.

Refute ahl al bid'ah by all means. But let us not be counter productive by allowing personal attacks. Othwerwise those very people that you admit are less informed yet wanting to know will most definitely find the manner and style repulsive.

My reason for stressing these points here rather than any other forum is because i really see potential for sunniport as opposed these other forums.


5)

Im sure you had said earlier that the prime reason (among others) for people having nicks, as opposed to real names, is because they fear saying the haq in real life. Am i right?


(im not quoting you verbatim because i still dont know how to quote others except by copy and paste which is arduous)


If so, what did i not comprehend or understand when i claimed that such people should maintain sincerity and manners if such is indeed the case, as you have claimed?


6)

Abu hassans right, it is khilaf al muru'a to mention ghulam (or anyone) in such light. But please consider why i mentioned him. I did so to show:


a) that moderators dont delete sarcastic posts by active posters like ghulam


b) ghulam's probably the only poster i know personally whos definitely not sincere for many reasons which shows why abu hassans wrong that people choose nicks because they fear repercussions, yet theyre sincere.

Youre wrong because many posters (like ghulam) are not sincere but bored/depressed.


c) the reason for publicly mentioning it is to show readers how abu hassan cant simply bite the bullet and admit that polemics and debates will continue but immature people will be warned/banned.


d) youre right about finding excuses but the context of what youre saying most definitely doesnt apply to the like of ghulam due to his constant posts filled with sarcasm and mockery.


Whats so hard about that to understand? Or is it hard to admit?


Is it because im minor fish whos only recently joined whos trying to advise the main people or senior figures hereon that you choose to prolong unnecessarily vital points for consideration?


Please clarify your reasons. And if you believe im illogical then provide clear examples. No point just stating it without proof.

I aint naqshbandi that im going to get emotional and swear. No need to.


Abdul qadir you also havent answered my previous post. I wonder why?


7)

For a senior moderator most your points are childish. Take for eg whether ive not seen azhar or jamia nizamiyyah.

What are you on about?

Of course ive seen them!

Is that the best retort to my point you had in mind. How about you re-read my post and re-consider the truth of my statement?


8)

There are dragons around. Because abdul qadir not understanding the various versions and meanings of academic refutation wherefore he claimed that its not the right method due to the impartial approach it conveys.
My point was, we're not part of a university or something in which an administrator will give us low marks if we do be (what apparently seems) a little biased.
And even if we were NOT biased and maintained impartiality (as "modern" academia requires) even then the Sunni view will supersede and out do all others.

The reason is because kafir academies require for impartiality art every level. We dont. So abdul qadir- being sick of/having had enough of people like naqshbandi jamaati and sidis and so many other pseudo intellectuals, and rightfully so- generalized my claim as something similar they call for. Far from it!

that was my point.


So, to answer you in short, what aq did more or less say was that refutation in an academic fashion will lead to not conveying the sunni view as conclusive, due to other false views also being mentioned before and after, as is usually the case in academia, and the conclusion of our academic endeavor will leave the sunni view in the dark.

All im trying to clarfiy is that if that is what aq understood from my call for academia of any kind then theres something wrong.

9)
As for mistaking noori as some other guy that i know by the same name wasnt really a point for abu hassan to come on and comment, because it was a simple mistake of having confused one guy for another.

Again, the flaw inherent in having nicks (people do begin to guess and pin who might be who without any certain knowledge- at least i openly clarified who this brother is).

As well as abu hassans clear attempt to catch me slipping as opposed to answering my main points.

10)
A very learned person like abu hassan id expect to know why people shouldnt wear hats with na'l paak printed on the top; because in salah ones head touches the floor as well as those praying jamat having their feet towards or near it

 

Yasser Rashid when can I take Bayyah?

Some very interesting point raised, most hard lined but all true!

 

Yasser Khan Noori's description sounds abit familar
I always thought that was Ghulam

 

i know noori in person, alHamdulillah, great friend.

as usual, delusions of supreme knowledge leads to idiotic mistakes. you have mistaken noori for someone else. consequently, you can take your advice back concerning caps.

fiqh question:

suu' al-adab for what.

 

Sorry, didn't get you. I've never been to UK, or am i not getting you as i am a dolt and only understand plain language.

 

Noori you've left your red hat with a print of the na'l paak printed on top of it. I suggest you come to my house and collect it since the last time you lived here for some days in order to study with shaykh Asrar.
You haven't kept in touch still. Is everything ok?

Also, I would like to suggest that such hats with the imprint of the blessed na'l shouldn't be purchased or worn due to su al Adab when performing prostration.

I only responded due to noori posting.

Abu hassan I will reply to you later inshaAllah

 

something serious:

yes, they should. it is the responsibility of ulama to take a stand. they cannot just make suggestions and worry about "at least my record is clean". one should have the courage to face the onslaught if one tells the truth. if people are afraid to upset the apple-cart if they take a stand or criticise a certain scholar, they should retire and become ascetics. it is a valid excuse for ascetics to abstain.

but those who are public figures - and all these hefty titles and lofty appellations - are supposed to mean that they are guides. one does not become an "heir of the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam" by merely reading books or graduating from an islamic seminary. as an heir they all fulfill various responsibilities, such as teaching, giving fatawa, refuting heretics, sermons etc. but the underlying objective - or the "mission statement" for all of these "heirs" is: "to guide self and others; scholars and commoners; rulers and the ruled on the path of sunnah".

because, one cannot flagrantly violate the sunnah and still claim to be the flag-bearer of sunnah and the most prominent heir of the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

and there are precedents. read about the lives of those who are real heirs, who did not hesitate to take a stand, and for whom reputation or public acceptance was the last - if at all - in their list priorities. REAL heirs did not bother or fear to criticise anyone when they felt they had overstepped the shariah. yes, not everyone can be a "sarfarosh" ready to sacrifice everything. scholars are also humans, and they have families. when they are threatened - as it happened in the evil regime of assad - they had to go mute as the assad-devils seem to have an unremitting capacity for cruelty.

coming to your question, yes. shaykh nazim should have been publicly refuted by senior scholars. if i were a scholar with any clout, i would have certainly done it. for years, i kept quiet based on gibril haddad's silence. until i saw those books and videos - when we changed our stance and mentioned why we criticise them.

----
with shaykh yaqubi, the same thing. those who can should speak out. if i were in the UK, i would (but not being a scholar, my opinion wouldn't amount to much).

we are fulfilling the duty of "he who knows should demonstrate what he knows when fitna is rife..." not deluded that we are some sort of scholars.

though the word has been overused lately, ironically, that is what forums such as these seek to achieve. to give voice to a people like us who see a munkar and at the least, seek to inform others.

for the simple reason that i do not have mureeds, and i do not have rich people backing me, nor am i a leader of any community. how can i highlight the errors - plainly obvious - of these speechmakers? for example, the false accusations of pir abdul qadir or incorrect citations of a host of other people? thanks to the forum, a handful of people know me (at least someone X who writes as aH) and they (i assume) read my posts. so this forum is ONE of the modern tools to counter deviants. whatever we can do in our capacity. wa billahi't tawfiq.

yasser, brother. saying such things are cliche - but we are far older than you are; and have been through times and been there, seen it. the whole world is not birmingham (which is probably why you keep challenging everyone to meet you); and not everybody may have the same circumstances as you do.

----

you get straight Fs for both comprehension and rewriting.

----

as i said, if you had islamic manners that you lament, you would ignore that and keep quiet. (am i doing it myself? perhaps, but he is asking for it, i will gladly engage in private if he wants) real men do not embarrass their friends; brave men take it in their stride; and heroes conceal faults of others. (as long as they are not concerning the community or religion; the greater good... etc.)

if a man's friends feel inferior to him, and do not feel they are equals; or at least speak to him as equals - there is no muru'ah. real men will make everyone around them, feel as equals or sometimes even superior to them. it is not just lip-service, but others should really feel that he is one amongst them and similar to them.

among the aadab of SuHbah is to ignore personal flaws and to readily accept their excuses; and to find excuses for them.

----

what if someone says "visiting sunniport is a hobby"? or is it a hobby you don't approve of?

i personally wish that all muslims learn arabic and read beautiful works in arabic. but i know that it is not realistic. some people are talented; some others are diligent and hard-working; common people like us (regardless of talent or hard-work) do not have opportunities that some others have (again, whether by choice or compulsion). but to expect everyone to do what i do and enjoy it as i enjoy it, is the mandatory trait of a dictator.

we are glad yasser, that you are not a president.

----

what? with all your messy logic and outlandish reasoning? come on, we have buckets, you have a sieve.

you didn't get what AQ was saying. you need to read again.

if you don't know, don't slay imaginary monsters.

as if you have seen any of those.

there aren't any dragons around.

strawman argument, with generalisation clothes.

strawman again, but this time set on fire by howling dragons.

===
your logic is terrible. you need to take a course in logic.

first, you have to prove that X thinks there is a harm in mentioning and clarifying the view of the opposition. (X is either AQ or some acquaintance of yours).

secondly, you have to prove that X is not alone and everybody or a majority concur with X. (that is generalisation for you)

third, this is like saying: "have you stopped beating your wife?"

fourth, this is similar to an anecdote about a village simpleton who went on a trip and saw a walnut for the first time, and he asked, what is this thing with a hard shell called and they said: it is a walnut. in another town, he saw a black thing pouring water from its snout, he asked the townsfolk and they told him: it is an elephant. when he was back in his hamlet, someone brought coconut; nobody had seen it before so they asked this wise, well-travelled man. he was looking at it when it fell off his hand and cracked, water began to pour out. the man said: "this is either a walnut or an elephant".

if we shut down the forum tomorrow, it will be because of blind following of 1 individual. so how would you deal with that?

me too. read my posts from 2004.

yasser, we ask for yusr for the sake of the saying yassiru...

how the truth escapes even without one noticing it!

sub'HanAllah.

 

Phew! Lot of reading for a dolt like me. I would only add one comment to it for yasser that proposing something and doing it are completely two different things, it is your choice whether you keep proposing and expecting others to do it, or you do it yourself.

your idea of memorizing Quran al Karim is really excellent, i wish i could just stop doing every (useless) stuff and memorize Quran.

 

i can show flaws in your analogy, if you wish. but don't forget that burning the road was YOUR suggestion; refer to the title of this thread.

you have my second vote for that. yasser needs to learn to read carefully. an important skill for refutation is an ability to read carefully from different perspectives, to make sure that one has understood the position of the author accurately, before refuting them. also, one should understand their own position well - if it helps, one should list down "this is my stand."

many times we casually say something - but when someone else notices the flaw and seeks evidence, we assume that position and expend ourselves finding evidence for a false or weak position. we should stand back a little and think: "where did we start?" it is easy for me to say: "sorry, my initial statement was incorrect and i take it back" instead of defending a weak/flawed position and beaten black and blue by a competent opponent. we may not intentionally do that, and sometimes we may argue genuinely and passionately, having forgotten the initial premise and a false position.

know that some of us are old pachyderms. you can call my logic flawed and my reasoning full of holes, or tweedledee logic; but unless you can demonstrate your accusation, it is just your opinion - personal comments go to my spam folder (unless backed by proof).

 

yasser, i appreciate you honestly. your love of Ahle Sunnat and Ala Hazrat alone is enough for me to give you a tight jappi, regardless of what you think of me as a person, who is just an uninteresting sinful guy.

i didn't assume that of you. it's baffling to me that you thought so based on my post.

i do assume that you read and type incoherently.

as promised, i will get back to the thread, and your new points too, when i bump into some time. see, i have many things to do offline too, religious or worldly.

 

again, a few leaky buckets. Last time abu hassan was carrying them. Now abdul qadir is.
They are:

1)
Nowhere have i disagreed with ghulams or your criticism at all. Ive criticised the "manner" which is admittedly-by all (sulh kulli or otherwise)- khilaaf al sunnah.
The only guys who really deserve 5 stars on this whole forum are abu hassan and kattarsunni.

2) like youve openly admitted most of the posts hereon are "opinionated" which backs up my whole discussion. Namely, since when did shari'ah allow anyone to give their own view or opinion??

This point not only shows that my whole point is in stark contrast to that of naqshbandi/sulh kullis, but rather asks for that prestige which sunnis elsewhere had/have. This is proven by the following:

3)
I cant recall the last time i applied the same tone to correct you as you apply against innovators?

Dont ignore this question now. Youve entered the discussion so answer this question please.

4)
You mention real names. Again, just like abu hassans false analogy. Because "sunni"port and fb are very very different. One is solely 'supposed' to be "sunnified" while the other is a chatline between different genders/advertisement agency among many other defective services. Services that sunniport ought to be devoid of.
As for you and abu hassan being the very same people in real life i appreciate that honesty. But i know ghulam persoanlly and hes a right darpok in real life. I dont agree with abu hassan on the notion that some people amybe scared hence why they choose to remain hidden. Like i said before if that was indeed the case theyd at least maintain fine etiquette.

5) "hangout" for sunnis?
Go get some hobbies i believe, or if you dont already know arabic go read and discuss as a form of hangout those works and lectures kattarsunni has recently been posting in order to avoid and help other "hangout" types to avoid effeminate bickering.
Why couldnt anyone directly face sh nazim when he was alive? or sh yaqoubi now while he is alive and visiting the west?
why isnt anyone openly saying "hey nazim/yaqoubi your fakes and snakes!!

you know why? because we all have double standards and ulterior motives when criticizing. The nabeel afzal threads a clear proof for that (if it hasnt been deleted yet). And imam ahmad bin hanbal's (rahimahulLah!) trial against the mu'tazila is an even stonger proof that in reality we're all tallai.

6) Your assumption of me being/leaning towards sulh kulliyyat is of the hip because if you think that then you really need to meet me to discuss such. It shows why the disease of being online blazing people has allowed you to assume about me something which can only be deduced when im calling for academic/professional/brush up your act manhaj.

I dont know if you imagined the cambridge muslim college or zaytuna or minhaj al Qur'an when judging what i meant by academia, but let me help you imagine a little more than all those cheap academies, and people who run them, regarding whom that youve divulged a great portion of your life refuting:

azhar (100 years ago), jamia nizamia, and some more.

Has that helped you? i hope so

As for academic style of an individual:
Imam Subki in his shifa al siqam, Imam Ahmad Rida Khan in his Subahn al Subbuh and many many more.

I hope thats also helped elucidate some misconceptions. Has it? Let me know. Dont escape now. You must reply.

One more question is:
what harm is there in mentioning and clarifying the view of the opposition if we know for sure that the kalam scholars of ahl al sunnah demolished all belief systems? Are you insecure about certain loopholes still existing in our beliefs? Its like someone telling me not to add ghulam rasul saeedis risala in tawdih al bayan as an appendix on to my translation of subhan subbuh simply because Saeedi saab deals with a passage from sharh al mawaqif in which sayyid jurjani (apparently) backs the view of ja'iz 'aqli (which nuh keller is most likely quoting).

I asked the brother why not? he replied itll open a can of worms. I said the deos already have opened a bigger can on their forums with counter "refutations" every week, so why not do a thorough job of subhan subbuh in such a way that no stone is left unturned, so to speak. The guy remained silent. But he didnt admit that thats true.

That's a real life example of arrogance on our part as "sunnis". And a form of ignoarnce because "some" are blind followers when they clearly dont need to follow 1 individual.

7)
Ive clarified already why im posting here and why ill stop. So just read what ive said in other posts.

8) Sherkhan be a sher and make a real point. Because everyones "garam" really. We just express it differently.

 

i'm thinking of publishing all my acerbic barbs in a coffee table book on why coffee table books are an absolute waste of space on coffee tables. i'll do my best to ensure it reaches all coffee table owners so that they can place it on their coffee tables.

 

At least with AQ, he reserves his acerbic barbs only for deviants (as he sees it). With Yasser, almost everybody should expect a lashing. Probably it's just impetuousity of youth ("garam khoon" as aH noted); age might mellow him down. Till then, he hasn't made any useful difference to many here despite his potential to so.

 

@Yasser

neither am i. so that means my opinion is on the same footing as yours. you're not hujjah over me, and i'm not hujjah over you.

personally i think ghulam deserves 5 stars for his posts. i think he is a genius and i savor his posts. i'm not saying that just to get up your nose. i believe it in all sincerity. and i don't know him in real life, nor do i live in the uk. i'm not tag-teaming here. i only speak for myself when i post.

just remember that by your own admission you are not in a position of any moral authority to make any judgment calls on anyone, so what you have essentially presented, is an opinion. the same applies to me and my categorization of ghulam's posts.

i believe democracy is very evil. so i can't even put it up for a vote on "who do you think is the best poster of SP?". in theory at least, it is possible for 20,000 shias to register overnight and vote nawazuddin/hasanayn shah as a better poster than abu Hasan.

i'll talk about me and my story in another post when i find some time but for now -

irony 1 - you have a problem with my tone, and yet you employ the exact same or very similar tone to correct me. don't worry i'm all for freedom of speech as long as it isn't haram, and your opinion of me is - "sar aankhon par". but still, the irony exists.

i have a great regard for people who honestly speak their minds, you can call me diseased or deranged or disillusioned as much as you want.

i don't know if you've ever used facebook, but a lot of people come on there with their real names, and they still behave the same way we pseudonyms behave on this forum. the politics, the exemplary manners or lack thereof, the cult followings etc. in short, people behave online exactly the same way with their real names as they do with nicknames.

i don't use facebook. i used it for about an year and then decided against it. that was in 2008.

like abu Hasan, and for better or worse, you won't find anything different about me if you know my real name or meet me in real life. my online personality is no different than the offline one.

see, this is something the owners need to decide. despite the forum being very helpful to a lot of people including myself, i see the forum as both of these -
- educational, as well as
- sweat release/punch bag/mid life crisis/family problems/stressed/depressed/had enough of life/spare time on my hands/etc etc release forum

indeed, i had said earlier -

personally, and again this is an opinion, i feel the word "academic" is just a pseudonym for compromising and sulah kulliyat and pretending to be knowledgeable or decent. if you've read theses or dissertations or research papers coming out of most universities, they're in the theme of "professor abc makes some excellent points. however i believe that this, this and this, is the right solution." imagine such a tone in a religious context, "the mu3tazila and the perennialists make such excellent points corroborated by strong evidence, however this is our proposed solution to purifying the heart from disbelief..."

again, it's only my opinion, modern academia is extremely pathetic. at least in an Islamic context, i prefer to use the word "educational" rather than "academic"

in any case, it is for the owners to decide on their target audience and character of the forum. scholars and tullaab only and making it an all out educational forum, or open to the Sunni public in general, in which case it will be harder to manage a whole bunch of opinions. one set of guidelines will drive one section of the audience away. another set of guidelines will drive another section of the audience away.

i'm short of time, so i will post more later on what i would do if i was the owner of the forum, before that, i'll just point out

irony 2 - you need to come to an online forum to propagate what a waste of time it is, and how people need to get offline, and you need to keep coming back, participating in various different threads, to prove your point.

i've yet to post some more points too.

 

Why burn it? Just take all the speed cameras and limits of. O yeah I forgot that's what I'm already witnessing. You've done it ages ago. Anarchy