mufti nizamuddin's Fatwa on Obaidullah Azmi

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Unbeknown, Feb 13, 2016.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    let us break it so that we can understand and discuss it in your simple english or urdu. i will appreciate if you directly address the questions, so that we don't waste time in useless debates from either side.
    Snap 2016-01-14 at 13.05.24.png Snap 2016-01-14 at 13.06.51.png
    ignore the line about 'muhadith kabir..', it deosn't matter whether nizam'ud din sahab considers him among his teachers or not. i know these are not the most important questions, but let us start for the start. we will move on to next questions if you have satisfactorily replied.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    SS is correct in asking you to provide a proof, if you cannot then why did you make it public. also, janab shaykh al hadith sahab should not fear for his dunya, his own and others' deen should really matter to him.

    no worries, use your time better elsewhere.
     
  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    what is your definition of 'simple english'? i find your posts very difficult to read and incoherent. i have admitted many a times that i am very poor at english. i merely understand simple english (even urdu), but your writing style is quite difficult at least for me, either you write very eloquent and above the average english or it is vise versa.

    besides, when you cannot understand plain urdu, why people should waste their energies to argue with you in simple english? would you bother to answer the questions asked by hazrat taj'ush shari'ah? urdu will be perfectly fine.
     
  4. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    brother please don't be hasty. your posts are beneficial and we will like you to be around. People like ss are the exception and not the rule. Most of us here have seen many like them and are not misled by their antics. Even though some of them, in their own dreamworld, think that people are swallowing their lies.

    Bazdawi was merely pointing out what additional steps could be taken to assure people about the retraction. He was not forcing that work upon you.

    I can understand that if he can get pressurized into signing it, it will be even more difficult for him to retract publicly. We know obaid is a thug and must have his "gang" on ashrafiya premises too and as you said, mawlana is elderly and not in a state to grapple with hooligans. I thank you for sharing this bit of info.

    Anyways, mawlana's retraction is not the only proof of the fatwa being wrong. It is just another one.

    yes. it's very easy. just click on his profile-picture which appears next to his posts. You will see a popup displaying info about him and there will we a few links in blue color. One of the says "ignore". Click this link. If you can still see his posts let me know.
     
    Noori and Bazdawi like this.
  5. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    There is no need to be derogatory, I was trying to be as polite as I could with you.

    I was merely trying to point out that you 'telling others to verify' is the same as what SS is doing, just on the opposite site.


    و خالق الناس بخلق حسن
     
  6. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    Really? Ya Allah, I can't believe the stupidness on this forum. Heard many before about the degradation. but this is absolutely time wasting.
    Did you actually read what I wrote, I am not interested if you deem it acceptable or not, I already forsew that people would deny hence made it very clear "Please verify".

    There is a difference in Tawbah being accepted and accepting a Qawl from an Adil Mastur Al Hal person regarding. You are in no position to tell me to be quiet because the Shariah does not require me to do so in this matter. My goal was simply for people to verify about this finding, hence I explicitly said Please verify.

    Really dumb people around here. Keyboard wanna be Alims who cant understand and differentiate.

    Admin please delete my profile dont know how to. I am never returning to this. Wasted my time on this forum.
     
  7. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    It may be enough for but it is not enough for other people. I am not saying this in a attacking manner but whilst upholding the Shariah, we should not overlook other things. There is a manner in which tawba should be done, rules regarding it, when it is accepted and so on.

    For you, it is enough because you heard it from them without a medium, or if there was a middleman, you deem him aadil. However, we don't know who you are, we don't know you asked, we don't know what Shaykh ul Hadith repented from.... we cannot just accept the word of a stranger from the internet.


    So they are aadil and mastur al haal? How very strange.

    Take it from a neutrals point of view - SS is saying he has not retracted [this madman also says he has proof] and you are saying he has retracted [you are saying you have proof] so what is a neutral person from the internet meant to assume? Whose word should he accept? We don't know you, we don't know if you are aadil, we don't even know the minutest thing about you [and there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep privacy on forums] but when it comes to doing Rujū on a majorly disputed Fatwa, I can say with certainly, the testimony of a stranger of the Internet will not be enough for most people.

    Regarding this matter, you can either:
    1) get a written or oral retraction from shaykh ul Hadith
    2) ask the muftis you mentioned to give it in writing that they testify that Shaykh ul Hadith has retracted
    3) if you cannot do the above two actions, and cannot provide any proof then with all politeness - better to just stay quiet about it!
     
  8. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    Missing the point, for me it is enough to have heard from two collegues senior professors of Ashrafia of him who are trustworthy in their Qawl and discussed this with him. And this is for me in the light of Shariah sufficient to convey the message. Ram-Praiser-servant claimed that it was not and attributed it towards de Deen of Allah and did so by this Iftiraa.

    I agree that Sheikhul Hadith should do it publicly, but to consider what I have done against the Shariah is SS Bid'ah. A Tawba not being accepted and what is required to accept that he did Ruju are two different matters. He retracted and I have heard it from two Adil Mastur al Hal. And they can be asked again. Wassalaam

    Sjaitaan did an excellent job by ram-praiser-servant to distract the Deen from being protected, slandered me, Bid'ah and avoided the main issue. SS=ShaitaanStudent.
     
  9. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    Agreed. However, you are overlooking a major issue. Shaykh ul Hadith Sahib attested this Fatwa publicly, it is common knowledge that he signed the initial fatwa of Mufti Nizamuddin. He must also retract his fatwa publicly. It is not enough that a few scholars are aware of his retraction and it is not binding upon the laymen to go and ask him.

    He must do a public retraction, whether it be verbally or through writing. This is that the generic rule - a person must repent in the same way he sinned; if he sinned in private, a private repentance is enough but if he sinned openly, then is repentance must also be in open.

    I remember reading a Fatwa of Ala Hazrat whereby he stated that - if a person sinned in front of a hundred people and he repented in front of 99 of them people, his tawba will not be accepted. [Maybe someone can provide a reference]
     
  10. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    Advice to brother Arshad [and others] :

    This raving fool likes demeaning and insulting the Scholars, as he has demonstrated many times priorly.

    You should ignore this obstinate mad-engineer and leave him to his ramblings.

    If you respond to this mad engineer and his rants, you will not gain anything but anger and pity.

    I urge everyone to ignore him.
     
  11. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    smiley

    you innovate your own rulings and slander another, attribute it to the Shariah (bid'ah), then quote your own text from your own rulings, and claim to pinn as if it had a base in the first place.

    You are the one claiming I am lying in my personal hearing, so it is Shari'atan upon you to prove my lie. And it is not the other way around. Many Fiqh cases are build upon this principle. To declare this as against the Shariah is to declare all those Abwab in Fiqh-matters unislamic.
    And yes you can still acquire info with them and show proof of it. Your Bid'ah and lie upon the Shariah is enough to declare your statement as unreliable.
     
  12. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    OK. Pinned!

     
  13. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    My statement and reference and asking people to verify it with them, from the very beginning suffices in the light of the Shariah. And am not blameworthy if an Ubaidullahs/Nizamuddin Ram-praiser-servant does not want to accept it. And a retraction can be verbally, it is not contrary or against the Shariah to base this upon Ulama who work with Sheikhul Hadith and talked and discussed with him, sit next to him, this is your Ram-praiser-servant way of working to state or indirectly claim it is, or to claim it is a slander. You claiming that it does not, is your Bid'ah upon the Shariah.

    I Urge everyone not to give any attention to the distraction, but read the Radd of Mufti Akhtar Raza which I shared post #403. It shows clearly how manipulative and deceptive Nizamuddin works with Shariah and Fatawa. Glorifiying the Qawl and deed of Ubaidullaah and attributing it towards the Shariah.
     
  14. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    No it does not. This is not where you make your own laws.

    The scholar who made the attestation is alive. He has not done any public ruju. Those two person who say that the scholar has done ruju, they too have not provided any public statement.

    The least you can do is get an audio recording from Mufti Shams or Mufti Miraj.

    Just get me the proof. It is so simple. Isn't it?

    I know you will write posts after posts, do everything, but can not get me the proof. I will accept your audio recordings if the speaker mentions his name and date.
     
  15. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    People be aware of the real danger, the danger that a Qabeeh feel and qawl such as "teaching Mushriks how holy their Ram is in their Mahfil in which he is considered a god" is considered as a good thing. If this is not Qabeeh what will be left in our Deen? What will our Muslim brothers and sisters do in the future making this deceptive interpretation of Nizamudding a Sanad? Verily we will see our children become Tahir ul Qadri, and his servants.

    Read the epistle of Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan which I shared post #403.
     
  16. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    My statement and reference and asking people to verify it with them, from the very beginning suffices in the light of the Shariah. And am not blameworthy if an Ubaidullahs/Nizamuddin Ram-praiser-servant does not want to accept it. And a retraction can be verbally, it is not contrary or against the Shariah to base this upon Ulama who work with Sheikhul Hadith and talked and discussed with him, sit next to him, this is your Ram-praiser-servant way of working to state or indirectly claim it is, or to claim it is a slander. You claiming that it does not, is your Bid'ah upon the Shariah.

    I Urge everyone not to give any attention to the distraction, but read the Radd of Mufti Akhtar Raza which I shared post #403. It shows clearly how manipulative and deceptive Nizamuddin works with Shariah and Fatawa. Glorifiying the Qawl and deed of Ubaidullaah and attributing it towards the Shariah.
     
  17. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    That is what you are asked to prove.

    Bring evidence that he has retracted. Either his written statement or his verbal statement.

    If you can't,then ask Mufti Miraj or Mufti Shamsul Huda to help you. Let them testify this.

    In every case the responsibility is upon you. A written statement from Mufti Miraj or Mufti Shams will be sufficient, along with date and their name.

    Please bring some evidence or else you are like Dr Tahir who makes claim but when asked to bring evidence runs away.
     
  18. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    The edict of Mufti Akhtar should be translated into English for the benefit of the English speakers. I would do so myself if time permitted.
     
  19. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    Whether we like SS or not is irrelevant. With regards to Mawlana Abdul Shakur doing Rujū, he is correct that it should be open in the same way his attestation was public.

    Brother Arshad, I do not doubt you regarding this matter that Shaykh ul Hadith Sahib must have been forced but he needs to make his retraction public. If you are in contact with him, you should ask him to give it us in writing or an audio. Being a Shaykh ul Hadith, I am sure he will understand.
     
  20. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    I Urge everyone not to give any attention to the distraction, but read the Radd of Mufti Akhtar Raza which I shared post #403. It shows clearly how manipulative and deceptive Nizamuddin works with Shariah and Fatawa. Glorifiying the Qawl and deed of Ubaidullaah and attributing it towards the Shariah.
     

Share This Page