Blind Faith. Shaykh Saqib Shaami

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Nawazuddin, Oct 19, 2017.

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  1. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    I will listen to saqib shaami sahib and comment and see if he is saying what you are saying. the title gives an impression that taqlid in aqidah is allowed. whereas, all mutakallimun agree that there is no taqlid in aqidah. what you are saying like hashawiyah that taqlid in aqidah is fine. Validity is a logical concept but we'll leave that for later as it is definately beyond your field, dear brother. Can you kindly point out the minute in the video where shaami sb makes the distinction between validity and permissibility and that taqlid in aqidah is not allowed? is it your own valid interpretation:)
     
  2. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    the entire lesson could have been summarized with this:-

    Imaan Mujmal.PNG



    I believe in Allah just as He is with His names and His attributes; and I have accepted all His commands; I acknowledge it with the tongue, and sincerely affirm it with the heart.
     
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    going by the excerpts, it appears to me that saqib is a rank newcomer to the science of kalam.
    but unless one views the full clip, it would be unfair to accuse him of that.
    so dear blind followers, please dispel this notion building inside me that saqib might be clueless about kalam science.

    now, post the 4 hour clip please.
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    when are we going to see this 4 hour video?
    ---
     
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  5. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    My observation is that HH Saqib has created a fuss out of nothing and for nothing about this topic.
    In whole the 37 min he never quotes the passage of Imam Sanusi,
    but instead quotes from other books to show that a muqallid is not a kafir.
     
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  6. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    I will listen to saqib shaami sahib and comment and see if he is saying what you are saying. the title gives an impression that taqlid in aqidah is allowed. whereas, all mutakallimun agree that there is no taqlid in aqidah. what you are saying like hashawiyah that taqlid in aqidah is fine. Validity is a logical concept but we'll leave that for later as it is definately beyond your field, dear brother. Can you kindly point out the minute in the video where shaami sb makes the distinction between validity and permissibility and that taqlid in aqidah is not allowed? is it your own valid interpretation:)
     
  7. Rizvi_Qadri

    Rizvi_Qadri New Member

    Yes brother Nawazuddin. That is my point, if you do not understand the difference between validity (sihhah) and permissibility (mjawaz) then you should not attempt to step into this field. The discussion is regarding validity and your article is about permissibility.
     
  8. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    the title of the video is "Blind conformity in Aqeeda is Valid", and I was merely responding to that.
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

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  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  11. Rizvi_Qadri

    Rizvi_Qadri New Member

    This is definitely not your field brother

    Brother Nawazuddin, you have come to the right court to present your case, however I am afraid by mistake you have brought the wrong case with you. Please watch Shaykh Saqib's talk and read Shaykh Asrar's response so you can understand they are not debating about the jawaz of taqlid in usul, rather the ikhtilaf is regarding the sihhah of Taqlid.

    Both agree it is impermissible for one to do taqlid in usool. The itkhtilaf is regarding the validity of taqlid in aqeedah and even in that, both believe that blind conformity in aqeedah is valid

    Shaykh Asrar however claims that this is the position of majority of ahlussunah; whilst Shaykh Saqib's claim on the other hand, is that this is based on Ijma of ahlussunnah. The references in your article are on a totally different subject.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  12. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    the opinion of those whose field it is.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    This is Dasuqi on Sanusi's Umm al-Barahin, p.82-3:
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    haven't listened to the full lecture, and am not commenting on it now.

    but just to clear any misconceptions - let's start from Bahaar e Shariat:

    Taqleed in Aqeedah.JPG

    TRANSLATION

    LAW: "Taqleed" (conformity / following) is IMPERMISSIBLE in ‘Usool-e-Aqaa’id’ , i. e. ‘Principles of Faith’. Rather the matter (that is believed) must be believed with a firm unwavering conviction, whatever the source of this conviction may be. It's attainment is not restricted particularly to corroborative knowledge. But yes, Taqleed is permitted in some secondary matters of belief; due to this, even in the Ahle-Sunnah, there are 2 groups:

    1. The ‘Maturidis’: those who follow the school of thought of Imam Ilm-al-Huda Hazrat Abu Mansur Maturidiؓ.

    2. The ‘Asha’ira’: those who follow the school of thought of Hazrat Imam Shaykh Abu alHassan Ash’ariؓ.

    Both these groups are part of the Ahle-Sunnah, and both are on the right path (Haqq). They differ only in secondary matters (of belief); their differences are similar to those between the Hanafis and Shafa’is, who are both on the right path - such that none can accuse the other of misguidance or transgression.
     
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  15. Rizvi_Qadri

    Rizvi_Qadri New Member

    Response from brother Habib Jaami on Shaykh Asrar's Facebook status:

    Salam shaykh. kindly watch pir sahibs lecture yourself. Pir sahib has provided references from major sunni ulama proving that only abu hashim mutazili claimed invalidity of iman al muqallid and we must do taweel of what imam sanusi said. So its your fahm vs the likes of imam nawawi, imam suyuti , imam subki and Imam ramali mentioned in the 36 minutes highlights of the talk and many more. In the full 4 hour lecture, pir sahib has provided many more aqwal of ulama and how they did taweel of imam sanusis qawl which you have mentioned above. InshaAllah i will try to send you the complete 4 hour lecture tomorrow before its uploaded. I will show your response to pir sahib at ihya in a bit and will try to get a recorded response to what you have said above. Duas
     
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    From Shaykh Asrar Facebook:

    Question: Is blind conformity in faith permitted? Some people are saying you misquoted Imam Sanusi.

    Answer: There is no consensus on the issue of blind conformity in faith. While the majority say the faith is valid they also say the blind follower is sinful for not learning according to his mental capacity. So people who are capable of learning and do not do so are sinful. We do not declare those who blind follow as disbelievers but as sinful. As for the view of Imam Sanusi it is found in 'Umdatu Ahli alTawfiq wal Tasdid', even though some of his students say he retracted. It remains however that whoever blind follows in faith is sinful. If blind faith were totally permitted then how would a person determine whether his shaykh has deviated or not? Some of them say if your pir deviates from Ahl alSunna then do not follow him. Then I would ask how would a person know he has deviated if he himself is blind following. As for the claim that the Mutazila alone held the view of the faith of the blind follower being invalid, then this is untrue. Even though we do not ascribe to this view it was held by a minority. The upshot is that Muslims who are able to learn and do not according to their capacity are sinful. If a person believes in the existence of Allah out of conformity he is sinful and is prone to doubts. His faith is always in danger. Allah Almighty states 'Do not follow that which you have no knowledge of as the hearing, sight and heart will be questioned regarding that.' (Quran)
     
  17. Rizvi_Qadri

    Rizvi_Qadri New Member

    Blind Conformity in Aqeeda is valid

    Extracted highlights from a 4 hour lecture clarifying that Blind Conformity in Aqeeda (Creed) is valid based on the consensus of Ahlus Sunnah.

    Hitherto, only the deviant Mu’tazila held the belief that blind compliance in Aqeeda is invalid.
    An academic rectification of those who have wrongly ascribed the Mu’tazila Creed to Imam al Sanusi (رحمه الله‎‎).

    By Shaykh Saqib Shaami Hafidhahullah.

    Full lecture coming soon inshaAllah..

    On Youtube:
     

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