Shahid Ali continues public spat with Shaykh Asrar

Mufti Zahid Hussein Qadri Azhari said at 4:30:



Many wahhabis are such that they don't know anything (jaahil hotey hain). If his misguidance hadn't reached kufr and somebody knew him ke woh sunniyon mein bhi chaley jhata wahan bhi chaley jhata and he didn't know of the kufriyyat, he didn't know, then in that case because he was completely jaahil - he had no idea about it, then if a person prays his janazah then we won't say he's become a kaafir, we will say has done wrong and he should do tawbah. So that's the answer to that question.

Questioner asks: agar koi qabrestan main parhey toh bhi najaiz hain?

Whether its in the wahhabi masjid - just going into the wahhabi masjid is not permissible it is not permissible. Going into a shia masjid or a deobandi masjid its not permissible. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'stay away from everything because of which you have to give an explanation." and "stay away from places because of which people accuse you."

Mufti Sahib then says at 5:51:

And we have been ordered that al-hukmu bi-zawahir, we must judge according to what is apparent upon us theek hain? Jo hum pe zaahir hain uske hisaab sey hum log faisla kartey hain.

Somebody shows extreme love to you then I know that person loves me, somebody comes and says I am a doctor then we believe he is a doctor. Because the Prophet (ﷺ) himself said "I have been ordered that I judge people according to which is apparent.

You know when people say don't judge a book by its cover? Hain na? That's when you can open the book and have a look. If you can't open the book and have a look - somebody gives you five books, they're all wrapped you can't open them, take one of them you have to judge it by its cover. You have no option.

So in the same way you try and see whatever becomes apparent from the book, try and turn it around, see how thick it is, everything that's apparent - all the knowledge you have about it you use all of that to make a judgement. In the same way in regards to people we can't see what's in their hearts, we can't see what's in their hearts. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala says: "It is Allah who looks at the hearts to judge people." and the Prophet (ﷺ) said: "we have been ordered to judge people according to that which has been made apparent.

And that is why the Ulama say when you see a person go into a church, he is a Christian, when you see a person go into a synagogue he is a Jew, when you see a person go to a gurdwara he is a Sikh, when you see a person going into a temple then he is a Hindu - that is the apparent judgement.

If something else because apparent upon you, for example the church has an opening for all faiths board outside, then something else has become apparent and you may say he might not be a Christian, because its an opening he might be going in to have a look. You use the apparent to make a judgement. Theek hain? So that's the situation.

You must not go into a wahhabi masjid because when people see you they will assume that you are a wahhabi and therefore the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) said: "stay away from places because of which people assume things of you and accuse you of." That's why you shouldn't enter a pub because entering a pub and having a drink of pepsi or water is permissible. Biz-zaat jaiz hain. Because you are entering a place of tuhmah it is not permissible. That's why it is not permissible to enter a pub because people will say 'yeh sharaabi hain'. You can't go into a brothel, its not permissible because people will see you will accuse you.

I gathered a few things from Mufti Sahib's clip:

• There are wahhabis who do not reach the hadd of kufr.
• To perform their janaza is sinful.
• We must judge on the apparent using all of the indicators that are apparent to us.

Mawlana @abu Hasan , based on what Mawlana Asrar said in his Q&A, how is what he said different to the principles Mufti Zahid put forth?

If it is possible there are muslims who don't know much about sectarian disputes (except for staying away from Shia and Qadiyanis) and someone appears to be a sunni imam who follows a maddhab and he prays behind him and asks him questions in matters pertaining to Islamic knowledge, isn't that exactly what Mufti Zahid said we should do because we can't look into his heart - judge on the apparent? How else would he be able to tell apart one individual claiming to be a Hanafi, Maturidi, Sunni, Tasawwufi from another?

And if that Imam who appears Sunni advises the layperson to stay away from group xyz because they engage in innovation and shirk, is the layperson blamed for not investigating for fear of entering a building of a group who he has been told are innovators and he fears entering what he was told is a place of tuhmah?

 

before sh. asrar's admirer's direct their ire towards the muftis and ulama who answered shahid sahib's question, they should stop and ask themselves, what would THEIR answer be, if the same question was asked about "a person" without naming him or without the background of this question.

i don't know about you folk, but if anyone asked me that question without giving the background or naming sh. asrar, i too would have said the same.

the muftis are not to blame - as their answer is based on the question. shahid has skillfully stripped the context and reworded it in a manner that would elicit such a response. he even spruced it up with his 'personal conversation' with sh. asrar wherein he has purportedly said that imkan al-kadhib is not an issue that awaam should get involved in or learn about. it could have been said in a context which only shahid or sh.asrar would be able to comment upon.

one can frame questions in a manner to frame someone.

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instead of getting upset with the response of the muftis, one should examine shahid's question to these muftis. one should analyse shahid's reworded question vis-a-vis the old video of sh. asrar. notice that sh.asrar divided people in three groups in that video:

1. the awam who have no clue
2. students and scholars who are aware
3. associates of category2

and shahid ali either missed this or deliberately ignored this as it would dilute his accusation.

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another member has pointed out here (which i think was a screenshot from facebook) and shahid is well aware of this response:

and it is dishonesty to cite a seemingly ambiguous clipped audio and omit a recently clarified answer. unless of course you want to lynch him.

https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shaykh-asrar-q-a.15045/page-2#post-74224

​

and he also clarified here:

https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/shaykh-asrar-q-a.15045/#post-74189

​

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while i disagree with some answers of shaykh asrar, and i wanted to clarify my own views, i did not want to do it in this atmosphere. i told shahid ali that i would answer sometime, but not now. i even told him that in the ummahTV answer sh. asrar mentions valid points, even though i felt there are mistakes in some aspects.

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shahid ali knows that sh. asrar is not a deo-promoter and has been refuting deos. after the muftis answered, he could have asked them again with additional details - but that requires one to be sincere and just. especially the latter attribute.

wAllahu a'alam.

 

The question is pertinent tbh. If you have issues with shaykh asrar that hadn't been resolved in the meeting... Call mufti aslam and have another mediated sit down. Simple

What's with the monthly video releases if you're trying to get a serious resolution. We asked shaykh asrar on this forum to reign his students in (in not so many words). Shaykh shahid, do we need to ask your teacher to do the same to you?

 

He even mentions people accusing others of being sulh kulli based on fiqh disputes further along in the video in that same answer.

Speaks so beautiful with much common sense. However, the application in the response regarding shaykh asrar was lacking this time. I'm sure the respected mufti would retract if further explanation was made to him but anyhow. We need this fitna to end ASAP. Getting retractions and back and forth will just prolong the issue. Perhaps just ignoring it as shaykh asrar is apparently doing is just the best way forward

 

Listen between 24:33 minutes and 30:00 minutes. I just stumbled upon it by sheer dumb luck!

 

I could not watch more than 15 minutes of this bleating...

What is most baffling is the rationale Imam Shahid gives for why Shaykh Asrar needs to answer, retract and repent (because only a "proper man" does so):
1. people will become blinded (4:49)
2. people will not know what is right and wrong (4:53)
3. and out of love for their favourite personality they will forsake the shariah (4:58)

I also wonder: if Shaykh Asrar and his "thugs" were so intimidating, why did Imam Shahid go for a meal with them afterwards, especially if they had "no tarbiyyah, raised their voices, threatened him and had no respect"...

Additionally, what seemed contradictory to me is that in the beginning of the video he mentions that "all the points in his original video" were "discussed in the meeting" (2:18) in the presence of his teacher Mufti Aslam and other scholars; then why is he still seeking answers? confused.

 

Alhamdulillah someone other than me said it, and i didn't have to say it in my crazy way.

That could be attributed to Shahid too, it is his job as an aalim and mustafti to explain the circumstances comprehensively and honestly.

Like Khanah said, would he so daringly and openly call the Shafi3i (Hanafis too) muftis of the Arab world sulah kullis for permitting praying behind wahabis? Ok kufriyat of devbandi tawaghit are an Urdu issue, but the Arab and Turkish Sunnis have no excuse for not knowing wahabiyat.

It's one thing to leave it as a fiqh issue and say in our understanding of our madhhab, the rajih position is that prayer behind those mubtadi3in whose bid3ah doesn't reach kufr is makruh tahreeman/haram, wallahu a3lam, others may have other opinions.

But if they're making a case of bid3ah and sulah kulliyat, then that means they're making a case for violation of zarooriyate Ahle Sunnat, which spans across madhahib, and they should be consistent and brave and call most Arab or other Sunnis (like Shaykh Ramadan Al-Bouti) who permit prayer behind wahabis as non-Sunnis.

Welcome to the rattafication Sunniyat that is the fruit of the subcontinental Islamic education system. Critical thinking weeps.

Yes, as an outsider, i feel his action can/will affect Mufti Aslam sahib too, especially since he was the mediator last time, and Shahid even said it he has his teachers' duas and support.

 

I don't know if what the respected muftis have said constitutes slander. But it definitely is not accurate. Had they only spoke about the general need to avoid praying behind deviants etc we would have all accepted it. But the accusations of being sulh kulli is so unjust.

It's all the more remarkable considering the recent book published by shaykh shahid Ali (refuting deobandis) was done according to the suggestion of shaykh asrar! Or that's what I understand from his q and a thread.

If that's the case, how could he possibly be sulh kulli? Makes no sense. Most ridiculous accusation that could have been made.

As for shaykh shahid, did he consult mufti Aslam before making this most recent video? Surely he should have learnt his lesson by now.

As for going to some Pakistani muftis for fatwas over WhatsApp voice note or whatever he did- what is the need of this when mufti Aslam is right there, couldn't he have refuted shaykh asrar at the meeting? Seems like he was satisfied with the responses or didn't think it was such an issue that fitna needed to be created

Shaykh shahid has shown a lack of wisdom here. Too quick to refute a sunni scholar on relatively minor issues rather than dealing with bigger problems like the fact that most of his own congregation probably don't know how to do wudu properly or they recite Arabic as if it was urdu amongst many other major failings. Everyone with some basic understanding of the religion knows I am not exaggerating the state of the layman. Perhaps focus on that and let shaykh asrar get on with what he's doing

 

The mazkoor mufti sahib from Dubai, due respect, is not interested in caution nor are any of these "muftis"

 

The accusations of being sulh kulli and secret deobandi and whatnot are very unjust. Shaykh has done more work against deobandis and other deviants in the English language than any other scholar I know. If anyone has done more than he has against deobandis and the likes of hamza yusuf etc in English, please bring forth evidence.

The whole praying behind a deviant thing does not negate his sunni status. Especially since the shafi madhab allows prayer behind the deviant and considers it valid without need for repetition. Are the shafis no longer sunni? This is a fiqh issue and these muftis tried to turn it into an aqeedah issue. Ajeeb.

This shows the importance of needing to know the circumstances before you speak. There is the maxim 'a person who does not understand the time he lives in is an ignoramus' or something of the like.

On a similar level, if you speak against a sunni scholar without knowing the full details, as these muftis have done, this is oppression.

And since these muftis are not English speaking, they should have been even more cautious. Deal with the problems in the sub continent and let the western scholars deal with any issues here. The maxim 'the people of Makkah know best its valleys' applies.

 

Just curious

1) what's brother Shahid's position on iran shah?
2) was he too invited here for a q&a session?

 

Mawlana Fida Husayn ghafarAllahu lahu after basically doing takfir (andar se Deobandi, Tahrif kar raha hai, etc.) mentions the mukallaf issue and mentions the same ta'wil I brought in favor of Shaykh Asrar



does this mawlana not know the following basic principles-

1. Shubha fil kalam, takallum mutakallim
2. If there are 99 ihtimalat in a statement that go towards kufr and one towards iman, we will take the one that goes towards iman (check Tamhid e Iman; also Sharh alShifa of Mulla Ali alQari)
3. The ayah in Surah Hujarat:
[Hujurat 49:6] O People who Believe! If any miscreant brings you some tidings, verify it, lest you unknowingly cause suffering to some people, and then remain repenting for what you did.

It is clear mawlana shahid is a kha'in since he promised the Sunni public he would not bring this up in public again but he did.....

 

I just contacted mufti aslam raza as well.

 

He wants to be famous and yes best ignored.

Them Preston guys are not fans of Shaykh asrar Rashid anyway. Old thing. Like why would they be bothered all of a sudden why wasn't anything said before? What's this? You scratch my back and I scratch yours?

 

Note: I retract one thing Shaykh Asrar did say the layman is not mukalaf to know the issues of difference like kufriyat, imkan al kadhib and kalam but the ta’wil for this was given ironically by the mufti who wass attacking him (mufti aslam raza sahib ghafarAllahu lahu) that it refers to details and does not negate be mukalaf to ask sunni scholars and learn the basic differences

 

Some may mention the view of Huzur Tajus Shari'ah رحمة الله عليه on Mufti Akmal sahib ghafarAllahu lahu that his qawl is badmazhabiyat and that "he is not a Sunni". This has no relation to the skewed view of Molana Shahid Ali ghafarAllahu lahu and is not proof for Mawlana Shahid's unwarranted tabdi' of Shaykh Asrar using the following unsuspecting shuyukh
* Mufti Shafi ur Rahman Ridawi Bihari
* Mufti Aslam Rida
* Mufti Rashid Mahmud Ridawi
* Mufti Fida Husayn Ridawi

That is because Mufti Akmal was talking about praying behind shari' badmad'habs - all of whom have ghalbat al-dhann of kufr fiqhi/kalami and then saying "you must check each one for kufr otherwise you can pray Jumu'a behind them". A similar incorrect ruling was given online by another Mufti from a "Faizan e Attar" website (not related to Da'wate Islami) which is now defunct. See Hadrat's view here:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=800732300073183

and

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=800194753460271

and

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=800732576739822

Whereas Shaykh Asrar has negated any such prayer behind people of kufr or bida' on SunniPort - what the Shaykh mentions is about praying behind what are known as ghafileen - the dominant opinion is karahat tahriman (or haram).

As for la yukalaf Allahu nafsan etc., although I disagree with his istidlal, I am sure the Shaykh did not say one is not obligated to know about imkan al-kadhib or the kufriya ibaraat. This is a misrepresentation on Mawlana Shahid' s part

 

Great question. Ask Shahid himself, as well as those esteemed muftis he consulted.

I know for a fact one of the muftis Shahid showed in that video, said elsewhere on another very serious matter (nothing to do with this feud or the issues therein) - that it is khiyanah for a mufti to hide a ruling of rukhsah from the masses and that the masses should be given rulings of rukhsah and those who want to opt for the 3azeemah can.

 

Yes, just give him a medal and let him do the victory lap.

 

It should also be asked why Shahid Ali deletes and hides comments on his posts that provide more context.

A comment explaining that Shaykh Asrar had already addressed some of his queries here on SunniPort got hidden.

If Shahid Ali is such a proponent of the truth, why is he suppressing those aiming to provide fuller detail?