I mentioned the topic for completeness, but it can indeed be substituted with any other meaningful topic and Mawlana Arshad substituted with any other Sunni Alim. And it was mentioned in the hope that I would receive affirmation or negation that it would have been more desirable for Wajid Iqbal to be the sole English speaker rather than having another Sunni speaker deliver a speech at the Mawlid. Or do the local attendees simply get abandoned just because Wajid happens to be there as well? Does a Sunni Alim attending a Mawlid with Wajid necessitate endorsement rather than mere tolerance for the sake of preaching to the Sunni awam? This Must any Sunni alim who happens to cross paths with an associate maintain a perpetual mode of refutation? While you commented on this, you didn't actually answer it as far as I can see. Is it Haram? Makruh? I understand that avoiding him is your recommendation, but is this just preferred or Wajib? And the reason for mentioning Sayyid and Barakah: As already mentioned, the vast majority of the Sunni public are none-the-wiser about these issues. So attending for the sake of barakah and suhba with a Sayyid scholar is most likely one of the intentions with which they attend in the first place. Is this wrong? I do have some more follow up questions, should you permit it.
Shaykh @abu Hasan I must first point out that not once in the entire thread have I suggested that one cannot at all question Ulama and hold them accountable, or that they get a free pass, or that no one should dare speak out and instead must shut up and lower their heads. This is your own imposition. Whether one decides to attend or not, it's their personal preference. My critique was on the manner/method of Aqdas's supposed "raising awareness" in the public sphere as opposed to directly addressing Shaykh Asrar himself on the matter (and also the rest of the people that he raised issues with). He had a pretty great opportunity to present contentions to them. As I mentioned, I was aiming to understand how things practically get applied in the real world where, as is evident, not everything goes to plan, and not just idealistic theory. Consequently, a good way of doing this is to look at real case studies: A Sunni Alim speaking at a gathering with other advertised attendees who associate/attend gatherings with Sayyid Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi and Wajid Iqbal. And fate would have it that one such case was Mawlana Arshad speaking at a Mawlid with Wajid Iqbal in attendance (plus an Urs a few months earlier), and another case was the Burdah gathering with Shaykh Asrar. In addition to this, most of my questions were posed in a scenario based manner, hence the "haram or not if x?" line of questioning, as it makes it easier for one to gauge significance. Besides this being a tongue-in-cheek play on quotes from Aqdas, I was expectant of something more satisfying than "sorted" which was an attempt to prevent me from pressing further. No, Aqdas is not a Mufti, but I was hoping for him to at least furnish such a bold boycott with something a little more than parroting the lines mentioned. It seems that he has built up a reputation - thank you brother @Unbeknown for your attestation - for his "clarification endeavours". I was not expecting him to produce his own verdicts, but perhaps provide someone else's. Regarding my bombardment of Uncle Aqdas in the span of a couple of days and it's tone, which may have come across as irritating, this was done purposefully to show how he himself can be perceived. Considering the dire state Sunni Muslims over here are in, with apathy towards learning, the misguidance of the Najdis, liberalism, and atheism, the masses attending these Mawlids and Burdah recitals, while not the most ideal, is quite frankly a win. If Mawlana Arshad was out of the loop on Wajid Iqbal after several months, then it is quite safe to believe that the general Sunni public are even less clued on, which they are, about these affairs. Aqdas's style of posts, in the manner in which they're written, further the stereotype of "these Molwis just argue and complain all the time" (and with each passing day these seems to be more of a reality and less of a stereotype), simply because the vast majority of people will in fact have no idea what he's on about. Perhaps this will serve as a reflection on addressing the public vs addressing ulama and intended vs perceived messages.
If I remember correctly, during Shahid Ali's tirade against Shaykh Asrar, you mentioned you had email correspondence with him, so you may ask him this yourself.
Do tell us who my group, leader, side, and ilk are, as they are unbeknownst to me, Unbeknown. Is it that unfathomable that an onlooking observer may have questions? Or is our state in such a disarray that anyone daring to challenge a narrative for better understanding must mean that they are aiming to shut down criticism of their own clique. I called what he was doing fitna-mongering, yes, and I believed it to be so; my opinion. Yet beyond reeling out a bunch of questions and “x attends with/associates with/invites y who in turn is associated with z” statements he didn’t really back up his critique much, did he (besides parroting some “they should be questioned” and “Yaqoubi is unreliable” lines)? Fortunately for him, Shaykh Abu Hasan has come to his rescue and is answering for him. My theory was that, in him realising that Mawlana Arshad himself was in attendance with Wajid Iqbal not too long ago, his apparent jigar for raising pertinent issues and awareness to the Sunni public sphere mysteriously dissipated, and it was on this basis I questioned his motive and was intrigued by his Orwellian attempt to dump it down the memory hole. (If it was so justified, why was it then removed in the first place?) Thereafter, for my self-edification, I posed questions pertaining to his staunch opposition against the Burdah gathering and people’s attendance (whether he was addressing Shaykh Asrar or any member of the public). Or is it expected to just blindly accept everything he (or anyone else) says without question lest one be suspected of being a supporter of the individuals he raised contentions with?
@hamza1 clearly has problems with people criticising his group and it's leaders - that is why he calls Aqdas bhai "fitna-monger". But since he lacks the ability to engage in an ilmi discussion and vindicate his side, he couches his attack in the phony lament of "you are not fair, because you didn't speak out against xyz". His real agenda is to discredit sidi Aqdas, so that people don't demand answers from his ilk. This is quite understandable, since Aqdas bhai's critiques are always backed with solid references from authoritative sunni books. As the message cannot be disproved, the only option left is to shoot the messenger. The faux impartiality is too transparent to be missed.
ha ha. bad attempt at emotional blackmail. --- this is like saying: "if you do not check sunniport every day after fajr salat, you are depriving yourself of the discourse on qur'an, hadith and the importance of ilm. if you criticise sunniport, you are criticising the discourse on qur'an and sunnah"
it is obvious that you are ignorant and do not have the ability to discern between a logical statement and a fallacy. it is not necessary for one who seeks clarity to have the ability to clarify himself. if we replace 'clarity' with certain other attributes, we can understand this better. "for such a keen seeker of good food, you don't cook good food yourself" "for such a keen seeker of beauty, you are ugly yourself" "for such a keen traveller and frequent flyer, you cannot fly a plane yourself" "for such a keen seeker of knowledge, you do not really share knowledge yourself" ----- if people like you questioned yaqoubi on the TSQ and tahirul and dozens of REAL issues, like you demand answers from aqdas, it would probably make sense. but no. all these grandees have a free pass for anything they do or say. shhh. don't question them. bow down your heads and look the other way. if any fool tries to warn you that you may be misled - ask him about sayyids and barakah and anything else except real questions. and if anyone brings up the issue, then try to shut them up by brow beating or accuse them of fitna mongering: ah, the irony... ---- the problem with the awam and the scholar and the speakers and the community leaders in today's world is that they have lost touch with islamic approach to criticism and public accountability. everyone and anyone is offended by criticism. a scholar, public figure or a sufi shaykh can do anything in public - one is not supposed to ask them. they can do stupid things and say factually incorrect things - one should ignore that. yet, if a common man dares to ask them question, they will hold him to standards higher than their own shaykhs and scholars and maulvis and muqarrirs and 'guides'. the uncouth akram nadwi can attack tahawi, and ridicule hadith or someone seeking 'dua in hadith'. does yaqubi have the guts to correct him? do yaquobi's disciples have the guts to correct him? instead of hounding aqdas for answers, they should force a response from any of the so-called scholars and community leaders. my posts on akram - are harsh for the reason that no one seems to bother about it. he calls 'seeking dua in hadith' as bad culture in addition lying - obviously due to his jahl - that no prophet sought out dua of another prophet. and i demonstrated how stupid zaleel nadwi was. no ghayrah on the part of 'community leaders'. hum to doobey hain sanam tum ko bhi le doobenge... how will they face the messenger of Allah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam on judgement day?
did aqdas stop you or anyone from posting their opinions? i must first point out - answers are demanded from people who are in charge. does aqdas run the NMJM mosque or have a say in its affairs? if he does, he should raise it in the meeting. attendance in burdah gathering is not haram. but if a gathering or a scholar begins to give space to deviants or their sympathisers - or people with doubtful allegiance, or people who appear to have hidden agenda, such a gathering should be avoided as attendance would mean encouragement. when you boycott, or criticise something, it is done to raise awareness. not that one can stop such gatherings or change the manner and beliefs of the shady folk. --- i got to see a couple of videos of wajid iqbal. poor guy needs to spend more time learning. that yaqoubi has very high praise for him (and of course akram nadwi) only discounts the value of his opinion. nas'alu-Allah al-aafiyah those who attend events with wajid iqbal may not know about him. i do not attend gatherings as a rule, except for private gatherings in the homes of some close friends. there will be dozens of people whom we meet and we have no clue of who they are and what their inclinations are. luckily, they do not take photos in these events. suppose someone did and i would have sat together with someone from pakistan, who is known to be a staunch tafzili supporter, the internet will be plastered with these pics and caption that "abu hasan being pally with tafzili". it is the duty of the organisers to limit their invitations to people who are clear about the manhaj. ---- is shaykh yaqoubi a deviant? personally, he might not have deviant beliefs - but certainly, he is an enabler of deviants and heretics. hamza yusuf is a dajjal and yaqoubi promotes him - if yaqoubi has any concern for religion, let him pen a critique of TSQ, and hamza yusuf's contribution to this utterly shameless attempt to malign and tamper the qur'an (which, alHamdulillah, no one can; but attempt, they surely do). we have seen the moron that is akram nadwi - yaqoubi promotes him. if i remember well, he writes paeans to him. tahir jhangvi is another dajjal - whose patent lies are caught by even kuffar. yet, yaqoubi is only praises for him. so yaqoubi is unreliable. ----- a person becomes deviant when they profess a deviant belief. there are 100s of social media influencers and scholars on social media and so forth. we cannot keep handing out certificates to everyone [as if it matters!]. our job is to highlight deviance and mistakes where we can. it is amusing that people demand answers from aqdas - as if he is the head of all the various sunni organisations in the UK and he calls the shots. as if every decision in the hundreds of committees across the UK seek his approval. as if, aqdas is the chief guest in most functions in the UK. as if, aqdas is the imam of a major mosque or a major mufti in the UK. as if aqdas is the mufakkir e islam, and hujjatu'l islam, and shamsuddin and the 101 titles given to poster boys of sunni speech-circuit. come on guys - gather some courage and go to azmi sahib and question him.
why doesn't mufti shahid sahib and his teacher mufti aslam bandyalvi sahib or many of the senior ulama in the UK approach, apprise or criticise azmi sahib? especially when his son is wishing hanukkah and licking the boots of royalty and is more concerned about his image among kuffar. why shouldn't azmi sahib tell the public that "look, it is my son. not me. i do not like his shenanigans - do not be like him". i am told that he is hosting some minhaji and therefore it is the right season to demand answers from aqdas. this is like politicians and talking heads (read hasan nisar) pinning the blame of failure of governance on the poor maulvi sahib. "it is the scholars who have held back the ummah". --- @Aqdas, are you azmi sahib's murid?
ان شاء الله. I’d appreciate it. I guess what I'm stuggling to understand the most is how things realistically get applied in the real world as, evidently, it is not as easy as it seems to put theory into practice.
aqdas is not "mufti" aqdas. nor "lion of ahl al-sunnah" or any of the grand titles many ulama in the UK are adorned with. aqdas doesn't have muridin, he doesn't have students, he doesn't sit on the panel of ulama. what he does is raise pertinent issues and he has every right to do that. so for once - look in the mirror and ask yourself - will i have the courage to ask these questions to the esteemed and celebrity ulama whose presence in a gathering gives legitimacy to that gathering. i have not seen a single poster that advertises "muhammad aqdas" as the chief guest or a speaker or a burdah singer or his face plastered on these posters. but yes, let us demand answers from him. else he must shut up and shouldn't raise any issue. why are you confused? because those grand posters and impressive events sweep everything under the carpet. a common man is bound to say 'all is well'. ---- is aqdas a scholar who is responsible to answer every question of yours? you are hounding him because you think aqdas will keep quiet because you have cornered him with the silly whataboutery of "what about your brother..?" aqdas being a younger brother, may not be able to walk up to him and demand answers due to our culture where younger brothers cannot demand answers from elders. but should that mean he should not ask anyone else? of course not. same with aazmi sahib. him being an elder, aqdas may find it awkward to fault him. those people who do not have the courage to face the truth or answer straight questions resort to: "hey look there. what about that." ==== if only ulama were held to this standard of accountability - whether in the UK or even back home - the awaam would not be so directionless and heedless. on the day of judgement, ulama will be questioned for their actions - or inaction. not common people who ask questions, trying to hold them accountable. --- should azmi sahib be questioned and should he take responsibility to guide common people? yes. should azmi sahib be stopped from associating with deviants and deviant-enablers? yes. should aqdas be put in the dock for not questioning azmi sahib? oh well - has every "scholar" and pretender left the shores of the UK now and that it is only aqdas' responsibility to go and correct azmi sb? it is the responsibility of scholars to do that - and if they do not have the jigar [the courage*] to do it, hauling aqdas over coals is just to cover up their incompetence. if you are a follower of shaykh asrar, then it is HIS responsibility to speak up if azmi sb's actions are wrong. but then, you will say - sh.asrar doesn't mind. if you are the shahid camper - those who are against sh.asrar, then demanding accountability from aqdas is nonsensical. muster up courage and go to them (if you are in the UK). ---- this is what i am worried about and i have said more than once. the awam lacks direction. this is one of the outcomes of ulama having abdicated their responsibility. ---- i will try to answer your questions. in sha'Allah, though aqdas has already replied from his PoV. wa billahi't tawfiq. literally, jigar=liver; and in urdu idiom equated with courage and an equivalent expression in english would be guts. [edited for clarity]
He is against anyone who goes to Tahir ul or treats him as a Sunni. You may post this on social media. Anything else that could cause religious confusion you want clarified?
Correct. It’s not a command. It’s a request. To test just how concerned you are about muddied waters, how seriously you take your supposed clarification endeavours, and to see if you employ double standards when it comes to your concern for the Sunni public. That’s the substance. Do it or don’t, it’s up to you, though I don’t think you will do. Sweet. But beware and remember that this freedom can be enjoyed by everyone, not just you. Yup. I didn’t realise you knowing me (and vice-versa) was a condition nor did I realise that everyone you ever question or seek clarification from knows you—you must be famous ما شاء الله! Not what I want. What you want. You state: “The concern of Sunni ulama should be Sunni public.” “They mustn’t be left confused and there should always be clarity for them...” “But, no, it's all fine. So what if Sunni public is confused? Let them work it out. No one will clarify anything and they’ll all carry on...” (For the above quotes see attached images earlier in the thread.) “For now, he can reply on his page just as he has done the same day to my other post.” - If you can request Shaykh Asrar to get something posted on his page, why can’t I request the same from you? Oh yes, of course, it’s because we don’t know each other. How convenient that is for you. (I believe the below is no longer available to view now since it was under a now deleted post.) No, but it is indeed peculiar behaviour for such a champion of clarity to not then clarify why—I was expecting no hesitation on your part to elaborate on it. Won’t you think of the Sunni public, oh Aqdas? Think of all the people that have seen the posters and attended the gatherings. What if they think your brother is accepting of Wajid’s actions, or worse? They mustn’t be left confused and there should always be clarity for them. Or do you chuck all this out the window? You must forgive me, oh uncle, for my brusque tone, but I was merely attempting to reciprocate yours. السلام عليكم.
See, no substance. So you want to govern what I post where? Sorry, you don't get to choose that. I'll post what I want, where I want. A person I don't even know wants ME to go to MY social media and post what HE wants. Great. Any clarification you want about my brother, ask here. You can then post my reply anywhere you wish. As for deletion and edits, is it haram? Is it fard for me to tell you why? I must also publicise you say? Why? Is it haram if I don't?
Is asking question after question the only thing you’re good at, Aqdas? I don’t think you’re brother needs to clarify. You do. Unless you’ve lost the ability to read, scroll, and click, all that I want clarity on from you is documented here. Kindly take the time to answer each and every query. Be detailed to rid us of the burden of subsequent questioning. But before all that, you can begin by doing this: Don’t post anything else on your social media until it’s done. Thereafter, you can get the ball rolling by explaining this intriguing behaviour: Then you can answer the rest of the queries posed. And please, do not again attempt to avoid answering by just responding to a question with a subsequent question or with “when did I say such and such” as if asking about it necessitates that you said it. It’s not very cooperative. If you cannot fulfil the above, do not bother replying at all, and forgive me if I draw an unfavourable conclusion of you and your online antics. جزاك الله خيرًا.
