A'ala Hadrat and mawduat

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by Aqdas, Aug 13, 2014.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Brilliant way of explaining the issue, aH. Allah bless you as once you're on the case, the matter seems easily resolved.
    Abu al-Qasim likes this.
  2. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    I think, the point is absolutely clear now. all things are mubah unless prohibited. A fabricated hadith mentions x and there is not a prohibition in shariah from sound evidences then It would be considered mubah, this is the same as when there is not a fabricated hadith on the issue. In other words, the consequence for both cases is the same: mubah.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    hadith #1751, mawDu'at:

    "he who consoles (condoles) a person in affliction gets the same reward"

    thus, you should never console a person in trouble and affliction. because if you say things to comfort or console them, you would be acting on a mawDu'u hadith.


    suyuTi in la'ali (2/424) discusses this narration at length and also mentions anecdotes of scholars who saw RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam in their dream and asked about this hadith and he SallAllahu `alayhi wa sallam verified that it was true.

    i reiterate that these are examples for illustration; and i do not insist that these are mawDuu' narrations.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    hadith #1787 from mawDu'at

    "give good shrouds to your dead; as they will be visited in their graves (by those passed already)"

    thus giving a good shroud to dead - clean or new cloth - is acting upon mawDu'u hadith.

    in other words, if one is a staunch SaHiH-only person, they should bury their dead in old and dirty, smelly rags. (that is if they don't agree to the principle of general permissibility unless specifically contradict shariah).


    suyuTi in la'ali (2/440) commented that there are other relevant hadith that are similar to this (shawahid) and therefore it is Hasan - he directs us further to his sharH al-Sudur in which he has detailed exposition on its status.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
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  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    hadith #1034 from mawdu'at:

    "the charity post-fasting (Sadaqah al-fiTr) is due on every adult and child, man and woman...."

    in this hadith, there is an addition - patent fabrication - of jew and christian.

    so, if one give sadaqah al-fiTr adult or child, man or woman, it is acting upon a mawDu'u hadith.

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  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    similarly, hadith #1516 from mawDu'at:

    "be dutiful (do good) to your parents, your children will be good to you..."


    thus being good to one's parents would be "acting on mawDu'u hadith".
    Aqdas likes this.
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the point can be illustrated by a few examples.

    for example in mawDu'at of ibn al-jawzi, there is a hadith that says:
    "if sweets are placed in front of anyone, he should partake from it and not refuse it." [mawDu'at #1378, talkHis #664]

    assuming* that it is a mawDu'u hadith, what would one do? it is an observed fact that except a few lucky individuals nobody refuses sweets. (diabetics are attracted to sweets even more!)

    it is also a common practice that sweets are offered everywhere; now, should one eat sweets or not? and if one does not refuse it, does it fall in the category of "acting upon mawDu'u hadith"?

    my apologies for stating the bleedingly obvious, but that is what imam aHmed riDa said, quoting imam TaHTawi:

    "it is impermissible to do an action mentioned in the mawDu'u hadith, ONLY when the action in itself (regardless of narration) contradicts the shari'ah; and if it does not contradict any sharayi ruling in itself, then it is deemed under the generic principle of permissibility; doing such an action is not forbidden EVEN if there is some fabricated narration concerning it."


    *it must be noted that mawDu'at of ibn al-jawzi should not be used indiscriminately to label a hadith mawDuu'; hadith scholars have mentioned that he was a bit aggressive and careless in classifying hadith as mawDuu'. because there are many hadith in his mawDu'at there which are not just Dayif but even Hasan and even SaHiH and that too from SaHiHayn! so the guideline issued by hadith scholars is, don't just rely on ibn al-jawzi's (abu'l faraj) work to consider a hadith mawDuu'; one should verify and cross-check from other sources.

    scholars who came after like ibn SalaH, nawawi, dhahabi, iraqi, ibn Hajar, suyuTi and qari commented on this; suyuTi attempted to ratify/validate every entry of ibn al-jawzi in his la'aali al-maSnu'ah; and according to shaykh al-islam (vide tadrib ar-rawi): "i have found 120 plus hadith which are not mawDuu'; among which 4 are found in sunan abu dawud, 23 from tirmidhi, one from nasayi, 16 from ibn majah, and one from SaHiH bukhari..."

    thus, i have used these examples for illustration, not to insist that they are mawDuu' by merely referring to ibn al-jawzi's work.

    to complete this subtopic: imam dhahabi in his talkhiS affirmed a number of fabrications; suyuTi as mentioned did it more rigorously as he says that he based his research on a number of notes by shaykh al-islam.
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  8. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Accepting an action related in a mawdu' hadith as mubah is totally different to accepting the mawdu' narration itself.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    chalk and cheese, again.
  10. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

  11. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    I recall from my limited knowledge that alahazrat does not accept mawduaat. Perhaps abu nour is confusing weak hadith with mawduaat.
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what if chalk is made of cheese?
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    comparing mistakes on furoo3 and usul are as different as chalk and cheese
  14. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Lets just hope it not a case of 'if you excuse Ala Hazrat for mistakes in his books you must excuse my shaykh for his dodgy stances and mistakes'. This was a recent ploy made by some cultists.
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    abu nour, are you around?
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    if the question is narrowed down perhaps, someone can answer.

    has this question arisen because of any specific statement of the imam in any specific book? or is it just that you heard it somewhere and you are looking for validation?

    wa billahi't tawfiq
  17. Abu Nour

    Abu Nour New Member

    As-salamu alaykum

    Perhaps Sidi Abu Hasan may answer this: Is it correct that Sayyidi A'ala Hadrat takes a minority view on the mawduat, in that he stipulates that they can be acted upon as long as they are supported by overall Islamic precepts, as opposed to the prior scholars' (including Ibn Hajar and Ibn al-Salah) prohibition of both narrating and acting upon mawduh ahadith?

    Perhaps the knowledgeable brother(s) can enlighten us.

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