juhala disguising their ignorance by throwing vague statements. the best way to tackle such gyaan is to call their bluff. so here are my questions: 1. what exactly did imam ahmad say and where and how can you justify the above statement. REFERENCES please. 2. did the imam say: "i do takfir of jahmiyyah, but i will not do takfir of individual jahmis"? if not, what statement implies the above 'conclusion' attributed to imam ahmad? 3. what is your definition of 'individual takfir'? 4. in your argument about qadianis what is the difference between "group takfir" and "individual takfir"? is lahori the name of an individual who might be your mate or some relative of yours? if you are going to defend that jurjis guy, i would call him a jahil also for being one who has no clue of how to approach controversial issues. if one does not know fully well, one should learn to keep quiet - instead of throwing ink in the water which will only muddy it. من جهل بأهل زمانه فهو جاهل if anyone does not know about qadiyanis - they should either make an effort to learn about it and if they are unable to (for whatever reason: time, inclination, other important things) keep away and declare that you do not know enough about the topic to take a stand. ==== anyone who considers qadiyanis as muslims - of whichever stripe - in today's world is either a jaahil or a kafir himself (if he tries to do tawil of qadiyanis after learning about them).