Ahbash attack Shaykh Salek

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Aqdas, Dec 17, 2020.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    our aqidah is this - and this is the aqidah of our imam abu hanifah raDiyAllahu anhu (in his fiqh al-akbar)

    fiqh al akbar.png


    one need not bother about what modern heretics like harari and his jahil followers utter. we have shown previously that not only was harari a heretic, but was also a shameless kha'iyin.

    Allah ta'ala will humiliate them.
     
    Umar99 and Aqdas like this.
  2. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    A recording of the voices of the Ahbash leaders, Samir al-Qadi, Nabil al-Sharif, Ahmad Khalifa accusing the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ of having committed a real act of disobedience to Allah معصية حقيقية. And scans from the book of Jamil Halim al-Hussayni and others. Hady Fayed and Nabil al-Sharif say that they have never seen their Shaykh Harari do either a major or minor act of disobedience.

    Towards the end of the recording this horrible slander against the Prophet ﷺ was read in front of Shaykh Abdullah al-Harari and he didn't object to it.

    https://www.facebook.com/100001721921621/posts/4086801724720518/?d=n

    @abu Hasan
     
  3. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    Abdullah al-Khatib [عبدالله الخطيب] commented on the following video by Shaykh Salek, titled - Proper Beliefs and Etiquette Regarding the Prophets:



    New post:

    بيانٌ في عِصمةِ الأنبياءِ والرَّدِّ على من كفَّر جُمهورَ أهلِ السُّنَّةِ لقولهم بجوازِ الصَّغائرِ التي ليس فيها خِسَّةٌ ودناءة


    بسم الله والحمدلله والصَّلاة والسَّلام على رسول الله.


    فإن مسألة عِصمةِ سادتنا الأنبياء عليهم السلام، هي من البُحوث الكلامِيَّةِ التي تناولها علماء أهل السُّنة، في كتب العقائد والأصول والتَّفسيروغيرها. وأهل السُّنة والجماعة هم السَّادةُ الأشاعِرةُ والماتُريديَّة ومن وافقهم.


    ومِن جُملةِ ما قرَّرَهُ علماؤنا في هذا المَبحَث، أنَّ سادتنا الأنبياء عليهم الصّلاةُ والسّلام:


    * مَعصُومونَ من الكفر، فلا يعبدونَ غيرَ الله طَرْفةَ عينٍ لا فى الصِّغرِ ولا فى الكِبَرِ، قبل النُّبوَّةِ وبعدها.


    * مَعصُومونَ من الكبائر، كالزِنى, قبل النُّبوَّةِ وبعدها.


    * مَعصُومونَ من الصغائر التي فيها خِسَّةٌ ودناءة، كسرقةِ حبَّةِ عنبٍ واختلاسِ النَّظرِ إلى النِساءِ الأجنبيَّاتِ بشهوةٍ، قبل النُّبوَّةِ وبعدها.


    * يستحيلُ عليهم سَبْقُ اللِّسان في الشَّرعيات والعادِيّات، فلا يحصلُ من النّبيِّ أن يصدُر مِنه كلامٌ غيرَ الذي أرادَ قولَه، أو أن يصدُر مِنه كلامٌما أرادَ قولَه بِالمرّة كما يحصُلُ لمن يتكلمُ وهو نائم.


    * ويستحيلُ عليهم أيضًا الجُنونُ وتأثيرُ السِّحر في عقولِهم، فلا يجوزُ أن يُعتقدَ أن الرَّسول أثَّر السِّحرُ في عقله.


    * مُبَرَّؤونَ مِن كُلِ صفةٍ دنيئةٍ ومِن كُلِ صفةٍ خِلقيَّةٍ أو خُلُقيَّةٍ تَمنَعُهُم مِن إقامةِ الحُجَّةِ أو تُنَفِرُ النَّاسَ منهم وتمنعُهم منَ الاستماعِ إلى دعوتهم. فيستحيل عليهم الأمراض المُنَفِّرةِ كخروج الدُّود.


    أمّا الصَّغائر التي ليس فيها خِسَّةٌ ولا دناءة، فهناك خلافٌ بين علمائنا فيها، فقال الجُمهورُ بجوازِها ووُقوعها، وأنَّهم عليهم السلام يُنبَّهون فوراًللتَّوبة قبل أن يَقتدي بهم فيها غيرُهم.


    وقال غيرُهم بمنعها، فكِلا القَولَينِ مِن أقوالِ عُلماء أهل السنة.


    فالقولُ بجوازها، هو قولُ الجُمهور، فلَيسَ هو كُفراَ كما أشار إلى ذلك بعضُ الجهلةِ المعاصرين والعِياذُ بالله، بل هو قولُ إمامِ أهل السُّنةالأشعريِّ رضي الله عنه، ومن قَبلِه الشافعيُّ وأحمدُ رضي الله عنهما، والطّبريُّ والجُوينيُّ والغزاليُّ والسَّعدُ التَّفتازانيُّ والعَضُد الإيجِيُّوالشّريف الجُرجاني وابنُ بطَّال المالكيُّ وغيرُهم الكثير.


    وقد نقل ابن فُورك عن الأشعريِّ في [المُجرَّد] ما نصُّه: <ثُمَّ حُكِيَ عَنْهُ فِي بَابِ ذُنُوبِ الأَنْبِيَاءِ عَلَيْهِمُ السَّلَامُ: (أَنَّهُ كَانَ يَقُولُ إنَّ الأَنْبِيَاءَ عَلَيْهِمُالسَّلَامُ يَجُوزُ أَنْ تَقَعَ مِنْهُمْ مَعَاصٍ وَلَكِنَّهُمْ لَا يُسَمَّونَ بِهَا. وَلَا يُقَالُ لَهُمْ عُصَاةٌ). وَلَيْسَ مَذْهَبَهُ. بَلْ هَذَا مَذْهَبُ المُرْجِئَةُ. وَعِنْدَهُ أَنَّهُ يُقَالُ إِنَّهُ عَاصٍلوُجُودِ مَعْصِيَتِهِ فَإِذَا تَابَ زَالَ عَنْهُ الإِثْمُ بِزَوَالِ مَعْنَاهُ> انتهى. وقد علمتَ أنَّ الأنبياء عليهم السَّلام يتوبون فورًا.


    يقول التَّفتازانيُّ في [شرح العقائد النَّسفيَّة]: <أمَّا الصَّغائر فيجوز عَمْدًا عند الجمهور خِلافًا للجبَّائيِّ وأتباعه ويجوز سهوًا بالاتِّفاق إلَّا مايدلُّ على الخسَّة كسرقة لُقمة والتَّطفيف بحَبَّة لكنَّ المُحقِّقين اشترطوا أنْ يُنبَّهوا عليه فينتهوا عنه؛ هذا كلُّه بعد الوحي> اهـ والتَّفتازانيُّ مُناظِرمُتكلِّم أُصوليٌّ كبير.


    وشَرَحَ الإمام النَّوويُّ القول الأوَّل مُبيِّنًا أنَّه قول أكثر العُلماء فقال فِي [شرح مُسلم] نقلًا عن القاضي عياض من كتابه [إكمال المعلم]: <وَاخْتَلَفُوا فِي وُقُوعِ غَيْرِهَا مِنَ الصَّغَائِرِ مِنْهُمْ فَذَهَبَ مُعْظَمُ الفُقَهَاءِ وَالمُحَدِّثِينَ وَالمُتَكَلِّمِينَ مِنَ السَّلَفِ وَالخَلَفِ إِلَى جَوَازِ وُقُوعِهَا مِنْهُمْ وَحُجَّتُهُمْظَوَاهِرُ القُرْآنِ وَالأَخْبَارِ> انتهى.


    وقد أكَّدَ ذلك عن عياض العالمُ الكبيرُ بدرُ الدِّين الزَّركشيُّ حيث قال في كتابه [البحر المُحيط] في أصول الفقه ما نصُّه: <ونقل القاضيعياض تجويز الصَّغائر ووقوعها عن جماعة مِن السَّلف وجماعة مِن الفُقهاء والمُحدِّثين وقالَ في [الإكمال] إنَّه مذهب جماهير العُلماء..> انتهى


    وفي بَيان أنّ المسألة خِلافيَّة بين العلماء, قال الإمام المازريِّ -وهو رئيس مالكيَّة زمانه- في [إيضاح المحصول مِن بُرهان الأُصول]: <فبَيْنأئمَّتنا اختلاف في وقوع الصَّغائر فمنهم مَن منعها ومنهم مَن أجازها. وجنح المُجيزون لها إلى أنْ وردت في الشَّرع أخبار تُشير إلى أنَّها قدوقعت مِن الأنبياء> انتهى.


    وهذا غيضٌ مِن فيضٍ والحمدُ لله على ما أنعم، وإلّا فنقولات علماء أهل السنة في هذا القول هائلةٌ لا يَسعُنا حَصرُها في مقالٍ واحد. ومَعَ هذاكُلِّه، فإنَْنا لا نُنكِر على من أخذ بالقول الآخر كعياض والسنوسيِّ والمقّري وغيرهم. فهم سادتنا أيضاً ومن نحن حتى نُنكرَ عليهم وعلى منيأخذُ بقولهم.


    وقد سمعتُ من أحد الُمعاصرين كلاماً باطلاً فاسداً فقال: "إنّ من اعتقد أنّ الأنبياء تجوز عليهم الصّغائر، لا يَنفعُه إقرارُه بالشهادة مطلقاً" انتهى. يعني لا يَنفعُه إقرارُه بلا إله إلا الله وأنّ محمداً رسولُ الله لأنّه اعتقد شيئاَ يُنافي معنى الشّهادة. هذا معنى كلامِه والعياذُ بالله تعالى. كيف يقول هذا الكلام وقد قاله جُمهور أهل السُّنة والجماعة كما بيَّنّا؟! فكلامُه هذا مُفاده تكفيرُ إمامِ أهل السُّنة أبي الحسن الأشعري، ومنقبله الشافعيِّ وأحمد بل ولجمهور أهل السُّنة والجماعة. نعوذ بالله من ذلك.


    فاحذر أخي المُسلم من هؤلاء الذين يتكلّمون بجهلٍ فيما لا يُحسنون ويتسرّعون في تكفير المسلمين بغير حقٍّ. مِثلُ هؤلاء ما عندهم مخافةُ الله وليسوا مِن أهل العلم ولا يَصلُحون لتعليم النَّاس ووعظهم. نسأل الله الهِداية لهم ولا حول ولا قُوّة إلا بالله وإنّا لله وإنّا إليه راجعون.


    والله سبحانه وتعالى أعلم
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    AK is a fool who follows a bigger fool and like a mouse that imagines that it will push the mountain over, makes nonsensical statements.
    and some fools from the subcontinent are cheering him because he chirps in a voice similar to their cacophony.

    --
    good. that is an improvement.

    like milk is white and it is food, nutritious and healthy. some disagree and claim that it is a fascinating disagreement.

    when you have recollected your thoughts, try again.

    shaykh salek said what i said and what our imams of ahl al-sunnah said. only some idiots whose poor minds cannot comprehend disagree.

    he does not benefit from the insight because:

    burdah, 103.png
     
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  5. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    I'm not seeing Shirk. It's a fascinating disagreement and subject. That's all I can say right now.

    From my prospective Its a matter of understanding what Shaykh Salek said and understanding why Abdullah al Khateeb accused and benefitting from the insight.
     
  6. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Nafahat al qurb wal ittisal of Sayyid Ahmad al Hamawi al Hanafi (the annotator of Al Ashbah)

    B559B002-8291-49B6-974F-DBC86B0DBF84.jpeg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2021
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  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    you mean you do not understand ibn Hajar al-haytami's saying:

    "that he (RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam) is the deputy (khalifah) of Allah ta'ala, whom Allah has entrusted the treasures of His Grace [karam] and the spreads of His Gifts [ni'am] are subservient to his (RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam) command. he (RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam) can give whomever, whatever he (RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam) wishes; and prevent whomever from whatever he so wishes"

    jawhar munazzam, p80.png


    and as people without knowledge nor intelligence blabber that it is only a poetic line and it shouldn't be considered as proof, here is the same al-haytami in his sharh of mishkat:

    fath al-ilah, v4p414.png

    Because Allah ta'ala has placed the keys of the treasures of His Mercy and Knowledge in his noble hands; he gives from it what he pleases, to whomever he pleases. SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    ===
    this requires knowledge and understanding and those deprived of such a fortune will only see shirk when there is no shirk.

    what 'terminology' are you looking for?
    you are sounding like that clowron usman. among the beauty and barakah of following sunni scholars is that one is endowed with clear speech.

    mu'jizah is something that happens upon the action or wish of the Prophet contrary to what is ordinarily observed (which are commonly known as laws of nature. this is granted by Allah ta'ala, obviously.

    and funnily, you acknowledge the same thing as ibn Hajar al-haytami but only say it in a convoluted manner!
    what do you mean temporary? for example if the nabiy touched a sick man's eye and it became good. is this temporary? and when they left the prophet's presence, the sickness returned? or he placed his blessed hand upon a bald head and hair grew; when they left his presence, it vanished; (al-iyadhu billah) is this what you are trying to say? what exactly is temporary?

    man, from sounding like devbandi you are sounding like a qadiyani who called all miracles as unreal and perception. or mesmerism. eh?

    and contextual. what do you mean by contextual? that the prophet struck his staff on a stone and there were 12 springs of water. are you trying to say, contextually, it only means that the prophet took his flock to 12 streams and since 'staff' also is meant figuratively for 'people' this was not really water coming out of stones but only people going to 12 streams? sir syed eh?

    contextual.

    if i hain't understood you well, please explicate. the door is open.

    ---
    Allah makes their words come true. that is the right thing. once you understand this well, there won't be any confusion anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2021
  8. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    Don't really know what to expect, but I am hoping it would shed more light on understanding what was said by Shaykh Salek or provide a more recognisable set of terminology that we can relate to


    My Aqidah is thus:
    The true gifts of Allaah, the biggest most valuable bestowals are available through the waseela of the Prophet SallAllaahu alaihi wa alihi wa sallam yet there is an aspect of tasarruf all creation have no actual tasarruf except muijizat- where Allaah makes their words come true, its temporary, contextual.

    With regards to ownership, Allaah is the only owner of everything. Rehmatul lil alameen is mercy of Allaah upon the alameen, in Sahih Bukhari (memory withstanding) it quotes from the Prophet SallAllaahu alaihi wa alihi wa sallam that 'the Earth belongs to Allaah and His Messenger'. This is type of Kingdom given, the owner of all things is Allaah.
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what do you expect?
     
  10. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Active Member

    Abu Hasan, What desi Sunni statements are there in this regard?
     
  11. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Mullah 'Ali al-Qari in Sharh al-Mishkah (tr Amjad Mahmood, Guardian of the Cloak):

    If you say: How do you reconcile between the verse, i.e. His Most High's words: Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah. It is He who sends down rain, and He who knows what is in the wombs [Qur'an 31:34] and between what is popularly known concerning [people] being informed about Unseen matters? For example, the great Shaykh Abu 'Abd-Allah said in his Mu'taqad, 'We believe that a slave is transported in states until he reaches a point of spiritual aptitude (na't al-Ruhaniyah), whence he knows the Unseen, the earth is shrunk for him, he walks on water and becomes invisible.

    The reply: The Unseen has preliminaries (maradi') and points of succession (lawahiq). Its preliminaries are not revealed to any angel that is close to Allah or a prophet [who is] sent. Yet, as for the points of succession, then they are what Allah has revealed to some of those beloved to Him from the Tablet of His knowledge. Thus, the absolute Unseen (al-ghayb al-mutlaq) is thereby excluded [in such an attribution] and becomes a relative Unseen (ghayb idafi) [in such an instance]; and the latter occurs when the sanctified soul is illuminated and its illumination and radiance increases, together with diligence in knowledge and action, and the pouring of divine lights [mainfest], until eventually the light becomes intense and spreads in the vast space of his heart; thereupon, the inscriptions that are engraved in the Preserved Tablet are reflected in it [his heart] and he gains insight into the Unseen matters and has disposal over the bodies of the lower world; rather, the most sanctified outpouring (al-fayyad al-aqdas) becomes manifest with gnosis that is the noblest gift, so what about anything else?
     
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as usual a kha'in (خائن ) fabricating a false meaning in his own sick head and unjustly attributing it to muslims.

    if he is really a muslim, this abdullah khateeb should prove that any sunni scholar claim that al-busiry's burdah is waHy of nubuwwah.

    قل هاتوا برهانكم إن كنتم صادقين

    we know that you are utterly ignorant, who only knows the name of the qur'an and unfortunately, in spite of being an arab, you have no share in understanding its meaning. nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.

    shameless fellow. we had heard of khawanah stealing one or two lines from passages to suit their satanic whims. this one is an expert! he took two lines from the top and half a line in the end and gobbled up almost an entire page.

    you expect this one to preach us about tawhid and iman?
     
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    burdah is not waHy. but tampering texts as proof is, perhaps commanded by waHy for his heretic shaykh.

    i have not even reached commenting on half of his first post.
    by the time i am done, you will see that none of my ad-hominem remarks are out of place.
     
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  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Pity. Mentioning Burdah and Imam Busiri is a red herring. Why doesn't he address the rebuttal of Abu Hasan?

    Can someone forward Abu Hasan's rebuttal on the other thread to this khateeb character? (And zaleel)

    Habashis shamelessly cite this hadith, a lot, to describe fazail of their "faqih" shuyukh and yet spit venom against the grandeur of Sayyidina Ameer Mu3awiyah radi Allahu 3anhu.
     
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  15. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    Abdullah al-Khatib’s [عبدالله الخطيب] latest post:


    All praise is due to Allah, we ask Allah to raise the rank of Prophet Mohammad and protect his nation.


    Thereafter, it is not valid to say that the speech of the earlier scholars was revelation (wahy), as the concept of revelation (wahy) in it's Islamic definition can only be from Allah the lord of the worlds.


    Allah the Exalted said:


    (نَحْنُ نَقُصُّ عَلَيْكَ أَحْسَنَ ٱلْقَصَصِ بِمَآ أَوْحَيْنَآ إِلَيْكَ هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانَ)


    Which means:


    “We relate unto you (O’ Muhammad) the best of stories through Our Revelations unto you, of this Quran”


    And he the Exalted said:


    وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُكَلِّمَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَّا وَحْيًا أَوْ مِن وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ أَوْ يُرْسِلَ رَسُولًا فَيُوحِيَ بِإِذْنِهِ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ عَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ


    Which means that Allah the Exalted speaks to humans by revelation (wahy), or by having them hear his eternal speech (like Prophet Musa peace be upon him) or sending him a messenger and the messenger reveals to him what Allah ordered him to reveal.


    Morever, Imam Al-Bukhari had made a chapter in his Sahih on revelation (Chapter of the beginning of revelation “Wahy”) and narrated the Hadith of Al-Harith ibin Hisham May Allah raise his rank, that he asked the Prophet peace be upon him saying: “O Prophet of Allah, how does the revelation come to you?”


    So it is not valid to say that the honorable Burdah by Al-Busiry May Allah be merciful to him, for instance, that it is revelation. This is not a matter claimed by Al-Busiry himself nor he mentioned anything in it that gives this meaning.


    There is no doubt that this statement has no proof from Al-Quran, nor Sunnah nor the scholars of Ahlusunnah.
     
  16. Surely We established him in the land, and gave him the means to all things (Qur'an 18:84)

    This is Allah's Saying about Hadhrat Dhul Qarnain- Note the last part of the Verse so what about Imam Ul Anbiya (SalAllahu Alihi wa Sallim).

    Narrated Muawiya:
    Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If Allah wants to do good for somebody, he makes him comprehend the Religion (i.e. Islam), and Allah is the Giver and I am Al-Qasim (i.e. the distributor), and this (Muslim) nation will remain victorious over their opponents, till Allah's Order comes and they will still be victorious "

    Comment: How can someone distribute what he has no control over?

    The furthest from Allah have the loosest tongues.
     
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  17. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

  18. SaadSohail

    SaadSohail Well-Known Member

    AICP: the issue is not around whether he claims it’s by the will of Allah or not, he does say that it’s under the will of Allah, but it’s around that he claims that the Prophet owns the entire universe and that he can give whatever he wishes, just this on its own is against the greatness of Godhood.

    How is it against the greatness of Allah? The onus of PROOF rests on the claimant to substantiate his claim.

    Someone asked: Does that mean that Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) can wish contrary to the will of Allah (swt)?

    AICP: That's not the issue being discussed.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Imam Al Razi (rh):


    Thirdly: that when Allah informed the Prophet (peace be upon him) that Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab would die upon disbelief, the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not will Islam from them. For if either accepted Islam, then this would make what was revealed to the Prophet (peace be upon him) a lie. Thus, it is established that the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not will Islam from them. Despite this, the Prophet (peace be upon him) commanded them to accept Islam. From this we know: that the commanding of a thing can occur without the commander’s willing for it to occur.
    ____________
    A Prophet by definition does not will* something that Allah has NOT decreed.

    On the contrary, the layman and non-prophets find within themselves will* to do something but we don't get that thing because Allah has not decreed it for us. And often get discontent.

    *In both scenarios, the will is created and brought into existence by Allah.


    We are back to square one then.

    How does any of this negate the Greatness of God?

    How is shaykh Salek's point of view problematic then when he affirms "A Prophet's (peace be upon him) will and granting" is in accordance with the WILL, AND MERCY of Allah (swt) and that which He (swt) has decreed." ?
     
  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Back in the day when the day the notorious menace of the wahabis, the mutawwas, were a thing, they were pretty much like that. Fools who just did a 6 months course on 'enjoining good and preventing vice' from the obvious wahabi pamphlets would masquerade as 'ahl al-3ilm'.

    The habashis are no different. I challenge any of them to face an open book exam on any topic on anything outside Harari's books.

    Reminds me of a grave digger from India called miraj Rabbani who did a 1 yr course on wahabism and then started attacking Ala Hazrat, and went so "anti-shirk" he even attacked stuff ibn taymiyah permitted, and the wahabis themselves had to reign him in. Last I heard he got a good thrashing in bombay or something.

    Interesting. The ones I knew didn't like the devbandis... But I think you said the right word that describes these guys - weird alliances and marriages of convenience.
     
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    shaykh wahbah zuhayli (you can see sh, nuruddin itr in the background)




    ===
    and zuhayli was known for his mild speech.
     
    Umar99 likes this.

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