Ali ka pahla number

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by OsmanliNaqshbandiRizvi, Mar 5, 2021.

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  1. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Well-Known Member

    So does that also make him the head of Khaleelullah Hazrat Ibrahim Alayhis Salaam? After all according to what you have quoted he is head of all friends of Allah!
  2. Raza Khan

    Raza Khan New Member

    In Kashful Mahjub, Syed Ali bin Uthman Al Hujwiri (Daata Ganj Baskh), writes

    "Hadhrat Ali bin Abi Talib, may Allah be well pleased with him, the cousin of the Holy Prophet, (SAW), is the head of all the Friends of God (Auliya-Allah). He enjoys one of the highest and most exalted positions in the domain of spirituality."

    Also please see the following video in which a fatwa Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (RA) is mentioned on this matter. Wilayat is granted to every wali only through the permission of Hazrat Ali (RA).

    The position that Hazrat Ali (RA) is granted as mentioned in the fatwa of Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (RA), does this not make him the first Wali? Ali ka pahla number?
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021 at 10:10 PM
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this is not mutlaq, nor is it mentioned as istighraq.

    because "mawla" does not always mean master. "mawla" is also used as 'helper', 'aide'.

    besides RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is "mawla" as in "master" of anbiya and mala'ikah as well.
    this cannot apply to our mawla ali karramAllahu wajhah.


    abu bakr ka pahla number.
    Ghulam Ali and Aqdas like this.
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Umar ka pahla number (adl)
    Uthman ka pahla number (haya)
    Fatimah ka pahla number (nasab)
    Khalid ka pahla number (military)
    Muawiyah ka pahla number (naval)
    Sumayyah ka pahla number (martyrdom)

    Where will we stop? When we say pahla number, it is absolute. So it should not be said anyone other than Abu Bakr Siddiq has pahla number.

    If it's for partial excellence, why don't they say it for anyone else...? Also, it is best avoided because there are too many tafdilis amongst us now.

    Let's stop the ambiguity and slogans that create more problems.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021 at 3:57 PM
  5. Raza Khan

    Raza Khan New Member

    'Abu Bakr ka pahla' number and 'Ali ka pahla number' are both correct
    We know the hadith: "The sun has not risen or set upon anyone better than Abu Bakr except the Prophets and the Messengers." In other words, 'Abu Bakr ka pahla' number.

    We also know the hadith that our Nabi (SAW) said, "Man kunto Mawla Fa Ali-yun Mawla", "One who has me as his master has Ali as his master." This declaration makes Hazrat Ali (RA) the Mawla of Syedina Abu Bakr As-Siddique (RA) and of every Muslim. This was a position assigned to Syedina Ali (RA) although he is fourth in status. So from the point of view of him being Mawla, we get 'Ali ka pahla number'.

    Definitely in maqaam Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) is 1st, Hazrat Omar (RA) is 2nd, Hazrat Uthman (RA) is 3rd and Hazrat Ali (RA) is 4th.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  7. Naray Takbir
    Naray Risalat
    Naray Hedri
    Har Sahabi e Nabi ﷺ Jannati Jannati
  8. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    It’s not the mast one
  9. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Regardless, he has defended the slogan whereas in the past, he has criticised it.

    Which Irfan Shah is right?
  10. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    I don’t think Irfan Shah Sahib were present when they shouted those slogans. But they did attend later
  11. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Irfan Shah sahab himself was present, and he didn't show any sign of being in masti or jazb.
    Aqdas likes this.
  12. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    Shah Sahib has given a specific answer to a general question, the question is something else and the answer something else. As you said if this slogan is ok in general then why the need to mention the state? And can one only say/ believe this if he is in a mast state. More deliberate confusion being spread. Sayid Muzaffar Shah Sahib reply to ‘Ali da pehla number, nabeel pls have a listen if you do happen to come across this post:

    new slogans and phrases to further tafzili agenda: categorise superiority into political and wilayat and imply overall afzaliyat is of Maula Ali radiAllahu anh.

    Attached Files:

    Unbeknown likes this.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Irfan Shah sahib said:

    'If someone says dama dam mast qalandar Ali ka pahla number, then there isn't a fatwa because look at the words. The person is mast, in a state of ecstasy and there is no fatwa when someone is in that state.'

    Here, Shah sahib is actually admitting it is wrong to say Ali ka pahla number because if it wasn't, why would he need to say the person is only saying it in masti (ecstasy)? If the slogan was correct, why is it only valid in a state of ecstasy?

    This proves the slogan is wrong.

    I won't talk about masti but what then is the ruling on the one who says it in his senses? Because what is inferred from Shah sahib's words is that there is no fatwa BECAUSE the person is mast but if he weren't, then there would be a fatwa.

    Secondly, those people who were screaming it at that conference weren't mast. They were within their senses.
    Noori and Ghulam Ali like this.

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